Antibiotics and ccsvi

A forum for the discussion of antibiotics as a potential therapy for MS

Antibiotics and ccsvi

Postby sofia » Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:26 am

i have got my apointment for liberation procedure in mid may 2010. i have just read about dacid wheldons antiabiotic and suplement coctail. i think it makes sense, and i am losing a bit of hope for my liberation procedure now, but i have decided to go on with it.
but i read in one of the text that there is some sort of connection between the two theories, and that one of the causes or treaments doesnt rule out effectivness of the other, but i must admit i didnt understand it completly.
but so far i must say wheldons theory makes alot of sense to me, and i have high hopes for that if my liberation treatment is not successful
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Postby SarahLonglands » Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:32 am

Hi Sophie!

Let me try to explain the theoretical connection:

Firstly, though, there is no solid evidence that ccsvi has a congenital cause. It simply isn't good enough that a bunch of vascular surgeons decide that it is because they can think of nothing better.

The connection also has no solid evidence apart from people like me stopping having MS events after starting the right antibiotic regime. However, the theory is that MS is caused by the infection chlamydia pneumoniae in people with the right genetic markers. This infection can also cause soft tissue swelling as can be seen if you type "chlamydia pneumoniae" and soft tissue swelling in Google. Soft tissue swelling can occur anywhere, but in the neck it can press on the jugular veins. So ccsvi is a result, in some people, of having MS.

I don't know if I had problems with my jugular veins but I definitely had MS. Now, though, after doing David's abx regime for four years, I have not had an MS event for nearly seven years.

Sarah
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Xifaxan and Bacterial Overgrowth

Postby PatGF » Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:17 pm

I am just amazed there is a connection with MS. I was tested with the Hydrogen Breath test 12 months ago for a myriad of GI discomforts. They stopped the testing after 30 minutes because the hydrogen was off the chart. So to treat my "bad" hydrogen forming bacteria I take daily Xifaxan and probiotics (Digesta Guard). I no longer suffer from chronic fevers of 102-103 degrees and my GI is normal. Now I know it is helping my MS, too. I just had a fight with my insurance over it, as the standard of practice is a two week course. I tried that three times and it kept coming back. I had the CCSVI venoplasty 7 weeks ago and feel energetic and have no brain fog.
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Re: Xifaxan and Bacterial Overgrowth

Postby CuriousRobot » Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:39 pm

PatGF wrote:I am just amazed there is a connection with MS. I was tested with the Hydrogen Breath test 12 months ago for a myriad of GI discomforts. They stopped the testing after 30 minutes because the hydrogen was off the chart. So to treat my "bad" hydrogen forming bacteria I take daily Xifaxan and probiotics (Digesta Guard). I no longer suffer from chronic fevers of 102-103 degrees and my GI is normal. Now I know it is helping my MS, too. I just had a fight with my insurance over it, as the standard of practice is a two week course. I tried that three times and it kept coming back. I had the CCSVI venoplasty 7 weeks ago and feel energetic and have no brain fog.


That is very interesting. I was diagnosed with fructose malabsorption around Apr 2010. My gastro said that he had never seen hydrogen breath numbers of that magnitude when I had performed the fructose breath test at his office one day.

Fructose Malabsorption could also mimic Irritable Bowel Syndrome and vice versa (you could be dx'ed with IBS but actually, more specifically, have fructose malabsorption). Furthermore, there is new and upcoming research into a "Low-FODMAP diet" for IBS sufferers, headed by researchers in Australia, where fructose malabsorption and IBS is rather prevalent.




Low-FODMAPs wrote:*Fermentable Oligo-, Di-, and Mono-saccharides, And Polyols) are short-chain carbohydrates that are:
---Osmotically active, so they, after ingesting, drag water from the intestinal vessels into the intestinal lumen, thus causing diarrhea
---Fermentable (degradable by intestinal bacteria yielding large amount of gases, like hydrogen or carbon dioxide, thus causing abdominal bloating

http://www.healthhype.com/fodmap-diet-foods-to-avoid-in-ibs-bowel-disorders-with-bloating-and-gas.html
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Re: Xifaxan and Bacterial Overgrowth

Postby NHE » Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:16 pm

CuriousRobot wrote:
Low-FODMAPs wrote:*Fermentable Oligo-, Di-, and Mono-saccharides, And Polyols) are short-chain carbohydrates that are:
---Osmotically active, so they, after ingesting, drag water from the intestinal vessels into the intestinal lumen, thus causing diarrhea

http://www.healthhype.com/fodmap-diet-foods-to-avoid-in-ibs-bowel-disorders-with-bloating-and-gas.html


Isn't just about everything we eat broken down into osmotically active particles? For example, proteins into peptides and amino acids which are osmotically active. Also, starches and other carbohydrates into simple sugars which are osmotically active. etc...

NHE
Last edited by NHE on Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby SarahLonglands » Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:03 am

Pat, as far as I am aware, chlamydophila pneumoniae may be one cause of Crohn's disease. You are very unlucky if you had both that and MS. If it was irritable bowel disease, Many people can suffer from it at some time. Me, I have never had either.

However, before we get bogged down with gastrointestinal gas, I thought it might be good to reignite this posting from a couple of years ago:

http://www.thisisms.com/ftopic-6670-days0-orderasc-0.html


.............Sarah :wink:
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Re: Xifaxan and Bacterial Overgrowth

Postby CuriousRobot » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:30 am

NHE wrote:
CuriousRobot wrote:
Low-FODMAPs wrote:*Fermentable Oligo-, Di-, and Mono-saccharides, And Polyols) are short-chain carbohydrates that are:
---Osmotically active, so they, after ingesting, drag water from the intestinal vessels into the intestinal lumen, thus causing diarrhea

http://www.healthhype.com/fodmap-diet-foods-to-avoid-in-ibs-bowel-disorders-with-bloating-and-gas.html


Isn't just about everything we eat broken down into osmotically active particles? For example, proteins into peptides and amino acids which are osmotically active. Also, starches and other carbohydrates into simple sugars which are osmotically active. etc...

NHE


Yes, but you are ignoring the second term: "fermentable."

Simple sugars will ferment much faster than a complex carbohydrate which takes much longer to break down (and how long does food get a chance to stay and ferment in the human digestive system?). However, there are still sugars in complex carbs. Wheat, Rye, for example, can be problematic in large amounts when looking at Low-FODMAPS, because of fructans, which are big fructose polymers.

I cannot speak on behalf of amino acids and whether or not they ferment. I do not think they do.
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Re: Xifaxan and Bacterial Overgrowth

Postby NHE » Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:37 pm

CuriousRobot wrote:Yes, but you are ignoring the second term: "fermentable."


Actually, no, I wasn't ignoring it. My comment was discussing the claim that increased osmolyte concentration in the intestine will lead to diarrhea.

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Re: Xifaxan and Bacterial Overgrowth

Postby CuriousRobot » Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:29 pm

NHE wrote:
CuriousRobot wrote:Yes, but you are ignoring the second term: "fermentable."


Actually, no, I wasn't ignoring it. My comment was discussing the claim that increased osmolyte concentration in the intestine will lead to diarrhea.

NHE


<shortened url>

Take a look at amino acids: "some amino acids are hydrophillic or hydrophobic."

Most of the essential amino acids are hydrophobic, meaning they won't attract water. Peptides are bonded through condensation or dehydration, i.e., the removal of water.

And, actually, your original comment was regarding whether or not everything people eat becomes osmotically active and not, as you now say, whether or not increased "osmotical" activity leads to diarrhea. Diarrhea is watery bowel. I dont think anyone is going to be arguing this.

Sorry for hijacking your thread sofia. Organic Chem lesson wasn't my intention.
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Re: Xifaxan and Bacterial Overgrowth

Postby NHE » Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:28 am

CuriousRobot wrote:<shortened url>

Take a look at amino acids: "some amino acids are hydrophillic or hydrophobic."

Most of the essential amino acids are hydrophobic, meaning they won't attract water. Peptides are bonded through condensation or dehydration, i.e., the removal of water.


We were talking about individual amino acids. Peptide bonds are not relevant. The hydrophobic and hydrophilic nature of the amino acid side chains, important in polypeptide and protein three dimensional structure, do play a role in amino acid solubility. However, free amino acids are generally found in the zwitterion state and these charges will allow them to favorably dissolve in water. The CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics lists the solubility of the 20 essential amino acids (see the data in the last column of the table below). Many are indeed quite soluble in water while a few have rather low solubility.

Image

In addition, I still stand by my first statement, much of what we eat will be broken down into osmotically active particles. The digestive system deals with this on a daily basis. I do not feel that a few simple carbohydrates will have much effect on a healthy digestive system (which does not include those diagnosed with a condition such as fructose malabsorption).

NHE
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Re: Xifaxan and Bacterial Overgrowth

Postby CuriousRobot » Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:44 pm

NHE wrote:
CuriousRobot wrote:<shortened url>

Take a look at amino acids: "some amino acids are hydrophillic or hydrophobic."

Most of the essential amino acids are hydrophobic, meaning they won't attract water. Peptides are bonded through condensation or dehydration, i.e., the removal of water.


We were talking about individual amino acids. Peptide bonds are not relevant. The hydrophobic and hydrophilic nature of the amino acid side chains, important in polypeptide and protein three dimensional structure, do play a role in amino acid solubility. However, free amino acids are generally found in the zwitterion state and these charges will allow them to favorably dissolve in water. The CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics lists the solubility of the 20 essential amino acids (see the data in the last column of the table below). Many are indeed quite soluble in water while a few have rather low solubility.

Image

In addition, I still stand by my first statement, much of what we eat will be broken down into osmotically active particles. The digestive system deals with this on a daily basis. I do not feel that a few simple carbohydrates will have much effect on a healthy digestive system (which does not include those diagnosed with a condition such as fructose malabsorption).

NHE


And I never said healthy individuals should eat a Low-FODMAPs diet, but that those with IBS might benefit.
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