Link with asthma and chronic infections

A forum for the discussion of antibiotics as a potential therapy for MS

Link with asthma and chronic infections

Postby SarahLonglands » Wed Jul 06, 2005 6:37 am

An old but interesting piece about the link between mycoplasma and chlamydia species and chronic asthma, and by inference other chronic chest infections.

Another reason for the need of the return of the General Physician, I would have thought.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Retrieve&list_uids=11295645&dopt=AbstractJ

A link between chronic asthma and chronic infection.

Martin RJ, Kraft M, Chu HW, Berns EA, Cassell GH.

Department of Medicine, National Jewish Medical and Research Center and The Pulmonary and Critical Care Division, University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, 1400 Jackson St., Denver, CO 80206, USA.

BACKGROUND: Asthma is a prevalent disease with marked effects on quality of life and economic societal burden. However, the cause of asthma and its pathophysiology are not completely defined. Recently, the possibility that chronic infection may play a role has been suggested. OBJECTIVE: We sought to define the association between Mycoplasma and Chlamydia species and chronic asthma. METHODS: We performed a comparison study of asthmatic patients and normal control subjects. Fifty-five patients with chronic stable asthma were compared with 11 normal control subjects by using PCR, culture, and serology for Mycoplasma species, Chlamydia species, and viruses from the nasopharynx, lung, and blood. Bronchoalveolar lavage cell count and differential, as well as tissue morphometry, were also evaluated. Computer-generated scoring for the degree of chronic sinusitis in asthmatic patients was additionally evaluated. RESULTS: Thirty-one of 55 asthmatic patients had positive PCR results for Mycoplasma (n = 25) or Chlamydia species (n = 6), which were mainly found on lung biopsy specimens or in lavage fluid. Only 1 of 11 normal control subjects had positive PCR results for Mycoplasma species. The distinguishing phenotype between asthmatic patients with positive and negative PCR results was the significantly greater number of tissue mast cells in the group with positive results. CONCLUSION: A significant number of patients with chronic stable asthma demonstrate the presence of Mycoplasma species, Chlamydia species, or both in their airways, with the distinguishing feature of increased mast cell number. These findings need further delineation but may help us to understand the pathophysiology of asthma and new treatment options.

Sarah
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Postby Toyoterry » Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:15 am

I am 43 years old and have had chronic sinus infections since I was 15. During those years, the infections were sporatic, usually two or three times a year. I have been diagnosed with MS for only one year and I have had a sinus infection for approx. 11 of those months. I have taken Biaxin, Omnicef, and Augmentin with no success. Finally, a doc. tried me on Leviquin and it seems to work. Is this just coincidence or an indication of some kind of relationship?
Just for the record, I have mild psoraisis as well.
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Postby SarahLonglands » Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:02 am

This is interesting. Cephalosporins and augmentin don't have much effect on intracellular infections such as CPn. Clarithromycin (Biaxin) might. Levaquin (levofloxacin) does reach intracellular organisms and does inhibit cpn though it does not kill it, it just holds it in stasis, like doxycycline et al.

Moving further on, the association between chronic sinusitis and MS is well known and CPn is well known to cause chronic sinusitis. I can't really say anything more apart from the fact that your neurologist is quite likely to completely dis-count it as being irrelevant.
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Postby HappyDaddy » Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:27 am

Just a question: If doxy and roxi keep CPn in stasis, what is really killing the bug?
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Postby SarahLonglands » Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:33 am

Metronidizole/flagyl.
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Postby Toyoterry » Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:46 pm

As previously mentioned, my sinus infection is apparently still going strong. Instead of another round of Leviquin, my allergy Dr. has put me on a nasal corticosteroid. Will this have any effect on my MS?
Thanks.
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Postby SarahLonglands » Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:22 am

Steroids in large doses do cause multiplication of CPn, but the small amount given in a nasal steroid shouln't make any difference, but you said the levaquin seemed to be working, so why the change?
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Postby debbie8067 » Fri Jul 22, 2005 9:00 am

Hi Sarah
Due to this worsening & seemingly never-ending "relapse" or bad patch,I'm about to start an intense course of Prednisilone steroids to try and start a recovery from all this so i can begin my first pulse of Metro.
I take 12x5mg per day for 5 days and have had positive results in the past.
David didn't think they would react against the abx but will they affect the level of Cpn?

Thanks
Debbie x :?
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Postby SarahLonglands » Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:41 am

Hello Debbie,

Well, ordinarily steroids do tend to encourage growth of Cpn, but it won't make any difference in your case since you are already taking the bacteristatic abx, which the steroids won't react against, or vice versa, so carry on and hopefully before long you will have the dubious pleasure of starting on the metronidizole. :?

I guess your boys will be starting their summer break if they haven't already, so you will need all the energy you can muster. Please remember you can drop me a line whenever you feel like it, because although I have so much on at the moment, I can easily spend a few minutes replying, maybe whilst drinking some home brewed iced coffee!

Sarah x :)
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Postby Toyoterry » Fri Jul 22, 2005 7:57 pm

Thanks for the advice on the nasal steroids. As for the Leviquin, I asked the allergy Dr. for it but he said to use the steroids instead. Can the bacteria build up a resistence to Leviquin? If not, I'm going to insist on it next time I have sinus trouble. Which should be a day or two. For now, I'm getting by.
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Postby jaycee » Mon Jul 25, 2005 12:24 pm

I've always had problems with UTIs and have had one for about 8 weeks now. Every time I stop any antibiotic, the symptoms come back. I can't believe you've had a sinus infection for 11 months. I've had one of those just twice and they are brutal. Are the symptoms I think are a UTI the "urinary symptoms" posters speak of? I'm at the end of my rope. I'm so tired of the PAIN. Antibiotics give me horrible stomach problems but I've about decided they are better than the urinary pain. Can anyone help me?
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Killing two birds with one stone.

Postby SarahLonglands » Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:40 pm

Hello Jaycee,

As I think I have told you before, I have never had a UTI, or even sinusitis; only adult onset asthma and a frightful cough that would go on and on all winter. Oh, yes, hyperactive insect bites as well. It would seem that these were all linked by the fact that when I started on the Vanderbilt/Wheldon antibiotic regime, they all three disappeared within quite a short space of time. This has been the same with other people as well, who have previously suffered from UTIs and sinusitis. You might be wary of trying one of these broadly similar regimes because they largely consist of antibiotics, obviously, but the problems do just seem to melt away.

You might think of New Mexico as being some kind of black hole, but even if this is the case, you can order the stuff from the Canadian company and treat yourself. I didn't realise how many people were doing just that until recently. Some people I might advise against it, but you did say that you have a PhD, in statistics, was it?

You said "Can anyone help me?" Well, you can help yourself with this one, and it is good for the MS as well! :wink:

Sarah
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Postby jaycee » Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:09 pm

Sarah

I don't know about the medical environment in England, but here in the states, especially if you live in a small town, you can virtually be cut off from all medical help. If you don't play the game by "their" rules (agree with the doctor, don't ask too many questions, do what the doctor says, use only traditional treatments, don't buy prescription drugs off the web), doctors can refuse to treat you. I have been "thrown out" of more than one medical practice, receiving a registered letter informing me that I could no longer see any doctor in a rather large practice. I lived in a larger city then and thought it wouldn't be a problem but it turned out to be quite a hassle. I found out that doctors talk to each other about "difficult" patients, too. (That Seinfeld episode was not entirely fictional.) I realize that I'm taking a rather conservative approach to this but I'd hate to be in an emergency situation and have no options. And if I did get into an emergency situation, I'd like to be able to inform whoever might be willing to help me what drugs, etc. I have been taking. I am currently considering my options and am keeping an open mind but I hope some people, at least people in the states, appreciate my position and can back me up.
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Postby SarahLonglands » Thu Jul 28, 2005 3:47 am

Jaycee,

That's awful: is it like that all over the States? Could you not go to see Dr. Mike Powell in Sacramento? At least then you would have proper verified prescriptions.

I'll keep this short because I am doing it on David's computer, which I don't like. I want my own back working! I'll PM you soon, but I really don't know anything about UTIs apart from what I have already said.

Take care,

Sarah
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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