Benefits from Abx treatment???

A forum for the discussion of antibiotics as a potential therapy for MS

Re: Benefits from Abx treatment???

Postby MacKintosh » Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:08 pm

Out of curiosity, I did a google search of "primal defense, garden of life, cfu" and found this on a sales site (which I am not naming here, since it's irrelevant to the answer).

"Primal Defense ULTRA, as the name suggests, provides more probiotics based on a live cell count than Primal Defense. Primal Defense ULTRA provides 15 billion probiotic cells per day based on 3 capsules daily (5 billion live CFU per capsule). Earlier formulations of Primal Defense were formulated to deliver 1 billion CFU per caplet. Different probiotics come in different concentrations. Less weight of a more concentrated probiotic provides a higher live cell count than a greater weight of a lower concentration. Primal Defense ULTRA is made with higher quality, more concentrated probiotics, providing a higher live cell at some additional cost"

I hope this helps.
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Re: Primal Defense CFU

Postby NHE » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:07 pm

Thank you!
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Re: Benefits from Abx treatment???

Postby Liberation » Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:39 am

hopeforA wrote:
Liberation wrote:As I am doing the Vanderbilt protocol, I am just wondering how the two things reconcile with eachother. As far as I know antibiotics damages the bacterium flora, while FMT is rebuilding it. At first, it seems contradictory to me.

Is there any probiotics that someone can advice to take with the abx?


I have a sensitive gut and need a lot of probiotics in order to be able to stand my long-term abx treatment. I use VSL3. I also found raw sauerkraut very helpful for my digestion. I used to take kefir and it was very good but I have recently replaced it with a more complex probiotic drink called MAF878 (mix of yogurt, kefir and other) which is also supposed to stimulate macrophages eating up microbes.


Thanks, hopeforA. What is your experience with abx? Is it good to dring kefir and yogurt? In many diet forums they say to avid milk products.
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Re: Benefits from Abx treatment???

Postby SarahLonglands » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:33 am

Sorry NHE but I don't know. I have bought both the normal and the ultra and all I know is that the ultra is more expensive but the normal tastes better to me. Also both seem to work better than many, which you get to realize once you have worked your way through a full pot!

Mac, I didn't notice your reply! To busy with visitors until now.

Sarah
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Re: Benefits from Abx treatment???

Postby SarahLonglands » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:59 am

Lib, I know kefir and yoghurt are made from milk but I don't think that they sare classed as "milk products" if live. Also, You can make water kefir if you are worried about this.

Sarah
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Re: Benefits from Abx treatment???

Postby Liberation » Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:07 am

Thanks, Sarah. I just added kefir and probiotic drinks to my probiotic capsule intake.

I noticed that kefir is made of pasteurized milk, doesn't pasteurization kill good bacteria in the milk?

I also got the blood test that dr Sriram adviced. It will take a few weeks to get the results. In the meantime I am proceeding with abx.

How much time should pass by until metronidazole can be taken?
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Re: Benefits from Abx treatment???

Postby SarahLonglands » Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:45 am

It seems not, because live yoghurt is usually pasteurized. As for kefir I make water kefir, adding whatever fruit I feel like. It's quite funny to watch the bits of fruit rise up and down in the ferment. Very strongly coloured fruit gets bleached over the course of the ferment: usually four days.

If you are taking to the first two abx easily, you could start metronidazole after three months, otherwise leave it longer. I didn't feel anything the first time I took it, but it hit me the third time, so be warned!

Sarah
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Re: Benefits from Abx treatment???

Postby Liberation » Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:07 am

Anecdote wrote:It seems not, because live yoghurt is usually pasteurized. As for kefir I make water kefir, adding whatever fruit I feel like. It's quite funny to watch the bits of fruit rise up and down in the ferment. Very strongly coloured fruit gets bleached over the course of the ferment: usually four days.

If you are taking to the first two abx easily, you could start metronidazole after three months, otherwise leave it longer. I didn't feel anything the first time I took it, but it hit me the third time, so be warned!

Sarah


Thanks, Sarah.
Anyone knows how to make waterkefir? I saw some recepise on the net, but they mentioned some Japanese kefir grains or crystals. I do not know what is this and whether this is the right stuff.

So far, I have not experienced any problems with my stomach. The only thing that I noticed, but probably attributable to MS is the tiredness. Unfortunately, in the last couple months the deterioration was more perciptable in my walking. However, it might have nothing to do with the abx. My neuro told me that the only thing abx might have on MS is something positive.
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Re: Benefits from Abx treatment???

Postby hopeforA » Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:40 pm

Liberation wrote:
hopeforA wrote:
Liberation wrote:Thanks, hopeforA. What is your experience with abx? Is it good to dring kefir and yogurt? In many diet forums they say to avid milk products.


Abx have been a life saver for me. They were necessary to my recovery. However, after about a year I couldn't see much more progress so I added a few other bits and pieces some of which I have already mentioned and including the removal of my amalgam fillings and mercury chelation. I see the illness as multi-factorial and feel that it's probably best to tackle it from as many possible angles.

I don't have an answer to your question about dairies. I assume that if one is sensitive and it causes inflammation or immune reactivity then it's probably best to avoid. It may make a difference though if the milk is obtained from animals raised to certain standards, for e.g. on pasture, purely grass-fed, raw etc. Diet-wise I have been following the principles outlined in the book "Autoimmune, the cause and the cure" authored by Annesse Brockley (posts on this forum). It's an interesting read with plenty of helpful information.
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Re: Benefits from Abx treatment???

Postby Liberation » Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:24 am

Anyone knows a good, reliable source of antibiotics? Any reliable generics for doxycyclin, azythromicin and metronidazol?

Do these internet sources really sell real brands or fake ones? How are these regulated?

As I am running out of prescription it would really help me to find a way around.
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Re: Benefits from Abx treatment???

Postby SarahLonglands » Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:35 am

This is the one to go for: http://www.hemaxshop.com/index.php?cPath=5&osCsid=c3f3ee584f7b3cd5de771d365c10d113
They sell both brand nome and generic stuff and are reasonably priced.

Sarah
Last edited by SarahLonglands on Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Re: Benefits from Abx treatment???

Postby MacKintosh » Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:39 am

It depends on where they'll be shipped to. Some businesses won't ship to certain countries.

As for regulation, there is little to none. That's why a good recommendation is worth its weight in gold. I used drugdelivery.ca a few years ago (to the U.S., no prescription required) with no problems, but don't know how they are now, if they're even in business.
The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi
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Re: Benefits from Abx treatment???

Postby Liberation » Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:55 am

Thanks. But is it real that there are countries like Canada where you don't need prescription to drugs? Otherwise how can they sell it on the net? ...ICan blood test or something be used to see if I am taking the real stuff?

I heard that in China they produced even fake Mercedes. :)
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Re: Benefits from Abx treatment???

Postby SarahLonglands » Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:49 am

Lib, the link I posted does sell real stuff: if you buy brand name stuff, especially you can be assured of it.

I think I would trust it more than the generic stuff we are give here on prescription!

China will fake anything but some fakes are better than others. Their "Fake Italian violins" used to be all tinny and cheap but now there are some beautiful ones which have an excellent sound: they aren't cheap,though, but by and large you get what you pay for!

Sarah
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Re: Benefits from Abx treatment???

Postby Liberation » Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:45 am

Thanks Sarah and MacKintosh,
I am going to use your links to order. Currently, I am taking Doxycycline and Azithromycin. Is it a good combination or should I change azithromycin to Roxithromycin? I should start Metronidazole or tinidazole soon? Which one is better? I am on abx for three months now.
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