Does CAP work for the reason you think it does?

A forum for the discussion of antibiotics as a potential therapy for MS

Re: Does CAP work for the reason you think it does?

Postby KillTheB » Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:33 am

Hello.
I think you should check here for your answer:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23038793

If it was all about suppression of adrenocortical hormones, fluconazole could have replaced CAP for MS. As far as we know, it does nothing for MS patients.

Seems like those hormone levels(as vitamin levels) don't play themselves such a significant role in MS(and other chronic conditions) development.
Their dis regulation could be consequence and not the cause. I wonder why this simple idea can come to mind of relatively few people.

It's funny, how many new properties of good old antibiotics where uncovered since it was observed that they help with many chronic conditions.
Mostly I can describe them as "smart immunomodulation" (pretty cool for 50 years old drug, huh?).
Maybe the main explanation of antibiotic's positive effects is hidden in it's name?
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Re: Does CAP work for the reason you think it does?

Postby Anonymoose » Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:13 am

Did a quick wander about and found a case study that showed fluconazole must be taken long term at 400mg/day to control hypercortisolemia (at least in one 83 yo woman). I dont think our levels reach the level at which one would be considered hypercortisolemic but I think the study still comparable in some ways. The same patient also needed to take 100mg of eplerenone, presumedly to control aldosterone. I should have bookmarked but didn't think to and am short on time today. I don't think typical fluconazole doses are enough to show results in ms and they don't adequately reduce aldo production/activity.

I've just got an unproven theory and the experience of clonidine helping me a lot with MS symptoms. I will have an MRI and bloodwork done this summer to see if it helps beyond that. In the meantime, there are a number of studies being done on drugs that seem to be beneficial to meeskers and people with MS. The drugs happen to interfere with the production/activity of aldosterone. Thankfully science is working on the idea and soon none of us will have to wonder if there is something to my theory. :) like its keeping anyone up at night. Lol

Be well
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Re: Does CAP work for the reason you think it does?

Postby NZer1 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:20 pm

Hi everyone,
I thought it was a good time to introduce myself here. I am from NZ and have had PPMS for over 8 years now and I have managed to stay relatively mobile. Because of my Life History I tend to go searching for understanding of things that impact me and I have looked at most things MS.
I travelled to Australia last August and met with Dr Paul Thibault and his Sonographer after talking online with him for about 18 months earlier.
I had Vascular Testing on the Neck veins accessible by Colour Doppler and Warren found some flow issues mostly related to azygos and VV's. I also had CPn blood testing in both Australia with Paul's chosen people and in NZ with one of the better labs, both sources came back positive with a persistent chronic CPn infection.
So with Dr Thibaults help I established contact with a Specialist in NZ who will work with Dr Thibault and is able to prescribe the Wheldon Protocol or the NZ version due to Drug availability and subscription subsidies.
I began the Protocol mid Sept 2012 and I am about to have the 3rd Pulse in 3 days. The whole time on the Protocol I have had what I call a positive symptom reaction which is actually a negative in disability really.
The Protocol has had effects on all my 'MS' symptoms with some minor improvements and mostly an increase and also fluctuation of the symptoms. I have found that many of my symptoms relate to injuries over my life time and they date back to my late teens. The increase or progression in these symptoms since I began the Protocol has me convinced that the protocol is targeting the 'problem' or core of my disability which does not allow me to work. I believe there is a core and then co-factors which have developed into the pigeon hole of 'MS'.
Dr Peter Chapman-Smith is the NZ Specialist we use and he does Skype consultations for the protocol which is such a huge benefit for the others who have now begun on the Protocol. Dr C-P is also involved in Stem Cell trials in NZ that are linked to an International Research Program. So positives all round.
Dr Thibault is also doing a trial on the CPn treatment he administers in Australia and the plan is to link NZers into that. I personally am in Dr Thibault's trial. The results will be some time away, so there is a positive future ahead.
Sarah, hope you are continuing the improvement!
I have sent an email to an address I believe Dr Wheldon uses to explain this as well as sending some thoughts and links. Dr Thibault and Dr Chapman-Smith are also in the communication link so hopefully we can generate some dialogue to further the findings regarding CPn and other bacterial involvement in any degenerative disease.
I spend allot of time communicating with others Internationally to increase my knowledge of co-factors in these diseases and have a fb site that covers many new insights at
https://www.facebook.com/pages/CCSVI-in ... 1636357984

Sarah, thank you for your huge input and dedication to helping others :)

Regards,
Nigel
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Re: Does CAP work for the reason you think it does?

Postby Liberation » Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:42 am

Anecdote wrote:Lib, the medical community in the West would not take too seriously any trial conducted on C pn involving herbal drugs.

As far as I know there aren't any current trials, but there are people working in their laboratories to find an easier solution to get rid of what is a very problematic pathogen. Never mind the money, all these things take time. There have been trials in the United States to substantiate the theory, as have been listed on this forum, but you can't force people at knife point to take part and since trials are by and large for relapsing remitting people, there are plenty of easier things for them to try.

Sarah


Thanks, Sarah,
As you know I also think that there are merits of the CAP theory, but there should be at least preliminary studies substantiating it. The lack of money and the threats of Big Pharma can not be en excuse for ever. As I said even diets and herbal stuff got money for trials, so why not abx?

Why not even a study that can prove that bacteria causes MS? Why not identify a subgroup of MS patients whose MS is caused by bacteria? I suppose that Sriram treats MS patients with abx. Don't they keep reports on their patients' status? If people saw hundreds of well documented cases like yours that would make a difference.

You know that it is hard to be patient and stick to the protocol when there are other things to try. Any study with results would help to decide. Also, it would help if we knew which group of MS patients are most likely to be responsive to CAP. If I had known abx works, I would not have paused the protocol for a few months for steroids. When I emailed Sriram he was not sure whether abx helps me or not.

In our gut there are millions of kinds of good bacterias. Probioticum just replace a very very small portion of that. Medical science still do not know the exact nature of the bacterias in our gut. So killing many without any reason might not be such a good idea.
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Re: Does CAP work for the reason you think it does?

Postby MacKintosh » Sun May 12, 2013 7:14 pm

Liberation, To address just one of your questions...
Diet studies and other such investigations 'get done' because someone sponsors them. I don't think people realize how many 'studies' are contracted for by huge corporations, in order to build a case for whatever program or scheme they intend to promote.

As far as big pharma being an excuse for why cpn studies aren't being done, well, never underestimate them. No profit = no reason to pursue it. In this case, they would be undermining themselves by gutting their own MS drug profit-making machine. Many times, big pharma has bought out small companies in order to suppress promising - but unprofitable - new drugs. As I read it, this is one of the reasons Vanderbilt published the abx protocol patent freely, to preclude anyone from holding it private or profiting from it.

Unfortunately, money really is the driving force here, or it is until there is a huge public outcry and exposure of these inhumane tactics. The place you will likely see investigative studies will be at the university level, and, unfortunately, their financial backing is thin during these tough economic times. In order to generate more donations, they will choose to 'study' more of the sure-thing outcomes than be adventurous. In time, when money frees up and the public is begging for more studies on cpn, the situation will improve.

In the meantime, Doctors Wheldon, Stratton, Powell and Thibault will continue to see, and help, thousands of patients, most of whom benefit from the protocol.

After re-reading my post, I'd like to edit it and add one more thing:
Please read my tag line, substituting 'big pharma' or 'science' for the word 'we'. I truly believe, if corporations could find it in themselves to act in the interest of relieving human suffering, rather than padding their investors' portfolios, we'd experience exponential advances in science and health.
The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi
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Re: Does CAP work for the reason you think it does?

Postby Anonymoose » Mon May 13, 2013 5:40 am

I'm pretty sure it doesn't work for the reason I suspected (correcting hpa axis disregulation). I still question why it works for some though. Maybe it works by eliminating all of the gut bacteria and related imbalances? A couple of other things that help in some cases of ms alter gut bacteria...fecal transplant and diet changes come to mind. It would be interesting to see a gut bacteria profile before and after successful CAP.
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Re: Does CAP work for the reason you think it does?

Postby jimmylegs » Mon May 13, 2013 7:25 am

I think much will have to do with some (but not necessarily all) of the adjunct nutrients in the protocol.
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Does CAP work for the reason you think it does?

Postby Anonymoose » Mon May 13, 2013 8:33 am

jimmylegs wrote:I think much will have to do with some (but not necessarily all) of the adjunct nutrients in the protocol.

That had crossed my mind too. Maybe they should add zinc to the protocol. :P
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Re: Does CAP work for the reason you think it does?

Postby jimmylegs » Mon May 13, 2013 8:42 am

you read my mind anon ;) not hard though is it LOL
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Does CAP work for the reason you think it does?

Postby Anecdote » Tue May 14, 2013 7:29 am

Adjuncts: Some people take a ridiculous amount of these, if you read CPn Help. I never took any more than many people do here, whether on CAP or anything else, or even nothing. I had progressive ms but I got better and have not had an ms epsode for ten years now, so..............................

Sarah
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Re: Does CAP work for the reason you think it does?

Postby jimmylegs » Tue May 14, 2013 3:16 pm

i haven't checked out CPn Help to see what people take, but have seen what i take to be a list of recommended adjuncts. any examples of ridiculous? just curious. are ppl being safe?
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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