Insights to Bacterial MS and other de-generative diseases

A forum for the discussion of antibiotics as a potential therapy for MS

Re: Insights to Bacterial MS and other de-generative disease

Postby Gogo » Wed May 15, 2013 6:57 am

MacKintosh,you are missing the point.Look into that, the difference between different MS types is not just the rate of progression. :) That is why I tried to get different papers here from professionals as our views are flawed. We are not trained neuros. We do not know much about the illness, only our own experience. That is not much. Can you substatiate your theory?

It just skipped my attention that it was posted not long ago here:

"Long-term antibiotic treatment with roxithromycin in patients with multiple sclerosis.

Woessner R, Grauer MT, Frese A, Bethke F, Ginger T, Hans A, Treib J.


Source

Dept. of Neurology, Westpfalz Medical Center, 67655, Kaiserslautern, Germany.


Abstract


BACKGROUND:

There are conflicting results concerning an association between Chlamydia pneumoniae and MS (multiple sclerosis). In the present study, we investigated a possible therapeutic option with antibiotics.

PATIENTS AND METHODS:

In our randomized, placebo-controlled double-blind study, 28 patients with the confirmed diagnosis of MS [61% relapsing-remitting MS (RR-MS), 32% secondary chronic-progressive MS (SP-MS) and 7% primary chronic progressive MS (PP-MS)] were treated over a time period of 12 months with three cycles of a 6-week oral antibiotic therapy with roxithromycin (300 mg per day) or placebo.

RESULTS:

No significant differences were observed in patients with RR-MS regarding the expanded disability status scale (EDSS) and the relapse rate when comparing treatment with roxithromycin and placebo.

CONCLUSION:

Our study shows that the patients with MS do not profit from a long-term antibiotic treatment with roxithromycin compared to placebo treatment. A causative connection between bacterial infections with C. pneumonia and MS therefore does seem very unlikely"

I know this study only involve roxytromicin, but at least they completed one. More than 6 years passed by since, but I have not seen anything like that from the other side. The only good thing that I can read out from this study that it is likely that a 12 month treatment is fairly safe.
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Re: Insights to Bacterial MS and other de-generative disease

Postby Anecdote » Wed May 15, 2013 7:12 am

Gogo, here you will find the reply to Woesnner et al in the same journal: Trends in Microbiology:

http://www.davidwheldon.co.uk/infection_journal.html

The Woessner study was flawed because it only involved roxithromycin and then in three cycles of six weeks over one year. David and Stratton replied to this and it has been posted both here and on CPn Help.

Sarah
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Re: Insights to Bacterial MS and other de-generative disease

Postby CuriousRobot » Wed May 15, 2013 10:33 am

Gogo, please stop commenting on research that you have not read or understood; all you are accomplishing is the spread of misinformation. Also, in regards to Woessner, 18 weeks out of a 52-week year is hardly "long-term." Zhang and Metz studied a group of about 10 patients on minocycline for 36 months, continuous, daily administration, with positive effects on Gd+ lesions on MR studies.
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Re: Insights to Bacterial MS and other de-generative disease

Postby Gogo » Sun May 19, 2013 2:25 am

CuriousRobot wrote:Gogo, please stop commenting on research that you have not read or understood; all you are accomplishing is the spread of misinformation. Also, in regards to Woessner, 18 weeks out of a 52-week year is hardly "long-term." Zhang and Metz studied a group of about 10 patients on minocycline for 36 months, continuous, daily administration, with positive effects on Gd+ lesions on MR studies.


Curious, you should please stop stopping others asking in this forum.
As far as I know abx treatment is not an FDA approved treatment for MS, so let me and others have the right to ask about it. Are you a medical doctor?
If you have info on the abx other than the ones in CPN handbook, why do not you share it with us instead of calling names all the time when someones asks a questions about it. Please excuse me that I am not well versed in abx treatment of MS but none of the doctors whom I contacted could tell me anything about it even though they have a wide range of experience either with abx or MS. I am not a medical doctor either.

Yes, I know the published treatment was not a continuos daily administration of abx, but I would assume that those scientists also had a hypothesis. If you know so much about abx treatment of MS, then why do not help us and answring our questions? You always refers to CPN handbook, but that book does not contain many important things and makes lots of mistakes about the role of autoimmunity, etc.

Instead of bashing others why just don't tell us when a connection exists between sy's MS and Cpn? I know the NAC test, but even without NAC I have sometimesrunning nose and mucus, etc. My blood test showed no detection of Cpn.
Also how should someone do the administration of abx in the long run if for example she has some side effects, like stomach ache, infection, etc.? All the doctors whom I talked to were afraid of doing such a long, daily administration of abx. Even when they treat sy with abx for years they do it in cycles with pauses of couple of weeks. The doctor who treats lyme patients said that the administration of abx takes only a few months for lyme patients.

I understand that the protocol was developped in a way that no resistance can hopefully occur, but you are still taking chemicals for at least a year that can damage organs just like any drugs. So, why is it such a bad thing that someone tries to be prudent and collect info before starting such treatment?

I do not dispute that abx helped some people, but basing a long term treatment with any drug on anecdotes written on the net by people hiding behing nicknames is all but not wise.

It is good to have the Cpn book, but you and those who organized that book should understand that those patients and doctors whose native language is not English will get lost in it and might miss important things that can even hurt the patient doing the treatment.
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Re: Insights to Bacterial MS and other de-generative disease

Postby NZer1 » Sun May 19, 2013 2:35 am

Gogo have a read of this thread, it long and in-depth, so take your time!

"Those with MS or ALS type symptoms appear to have huge biofilm issues. Some people can have such a huge problem with biofilm it's said strings can come out when donating blood. Course these guys are incredibly ill though. All my research really goes towards MS, ALS, Alzheimer's, Lyme, Autism, and similar. and they are all very connected with a biofilm problem and with detox pathways being overloaded and/or faulty. Hair loss just happens to overlap with biofilm problems like the above issues. "
http://immortalhair.forumandco.com/t693 ... d-biofilms

:)
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