What if not bacteria but virus?????

A forum for the discussion of antibiotics as a potential therapy for MS

What if not bacteria but virus?????

Postby Gogo » Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:29 pm

I just came across this on Wheelchair Kamikaze's site. It is really interesting, worth reading it:

http://www.wheelchairkamikaze.com/2013/ ... op-ms.html

"Within the last five years or so, it’s been established that virtually every MS patient is infected with Epstein-Barr virus (click here), which is best known for causing mononucleosis/glandular fever. I know, many of you are saying, “but I never had mononucleosis or glandular fever, so I don’t have EBV!” The fact is that in the majority of cases infection with Epstein-Barr virus does not result in Mono, but rather can present as a bad cold or flu, or can even be completely asymptomatic. Over 90% of the general population is infected with EBV, but, remarkably, it appears that 100% of MS patients carry the bug. MS researchers have long puzzled over the role EBV might play in the MS disease process, since EBV infection alone certainly can’t be the sole cause of MS, otherwise far more people would have multiple sclerosis. The link between EBV and HERVs could finally clear up this mystery, for if a long-term EBV infection can turn on ancient retroviruses embedded in the DNA of genetically susceptible people, the connection between EBV and MS might finally be understood"

"A clinical trial now underway at Queen Mary University in London, England, called be INSPIRE trial (click here), is attempting to use Raltegravir to treat MS patients. Researchers hope that the drug will deactivate any activated retroviral material in the DNA of MS patients, while perhaps also combating EBV, and thus stop multiple sclerosis in its tracks"

I guess abx has no any impact on virus.
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Re: What if not bacteria but virus?????

Postby SarahLonglands » Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:18 am

Statistics! You can't say that 100% of people with MS carry EBV unless everyone with MS has been tested. Everyone in a small cohort at Queen Mary College does not make 100%

Sarah
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Re: What if not bacteria but virus?????

Postby Gogo » Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:38 pm

Anecdote wrote:Statistics! You can't say that 100% of people with MS carry EBV unless everyone with MS has been tested. Everyone in a small cohort at Queen Mary College does not make 100%

Sarah


So, should we test everyone? :) I would be happy to see any study with 200 people with MS who went through Cpn test and antibiotics treatment.

It is good to see that so many researches are going on right now and we can hope that one of them will have a good result.
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Re: What if not bacteria but virus?????

Postby SarahLonglands » Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:38 am

I would be happy to see any study with 200 people with MS who went through Cpn test and antibiotics treatment.


So would I, Gogo: I thought once that the people at Bart's might do it but no, they chose EBV, which is soooo old hat, but threw in a few retro viruses for a change!

Sarah
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Re: What if not bacteria but virus?????

Postby Gogo » Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:47 am

Anecdote wrote:
I would be happy to see any study with 200 people with MS who went through Cpn test and antibiotics treatment.


So would I, Gogo: I thought once that the people at Bart's might do it but no, they chose EBV, which is soooo old hat, but threw in a few retro viruses for a change!

Sarah


Whether Cpn or retrovirus or EBV, it doesn't matter to me, just find what cases this stupid disease. Unfortunately, not just EBV, but Cpn is also known for several years, but what no major proof could come out in favor. So, we can just hope that a looking at things from a different angle might give new impulse.

With retrovirus, hopefully, we can see some interim results in a year or two and I would assume that enough experience should have been gathered on Cpn at Vanderbilt too.

It is just my personal opinion, but if results were so bright with abx at Vanderbilt, then we would have already heard about it.
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Re: What if not bacteria but virus?????

Postby SarahLonglands » Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:42 am

You are, of course, entitled to your own opinion.
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Re: What if not bacteria but virus?????

Postby Gogo » Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:20 am

Anecdote wrote: they chose EBV, which is soooo old hat, but threw in a few retro viruses for a change!



Anecdote, why are you so hostile to the idea of virus causing MS????? Trials just started.
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Re: What if not bacteria but virus?????

Postby jimmylegs » Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:23 am

FYI selenium and zinc are both antibiotic and antiviral. work like a charm against everything from the common cold to HIV

have HIV and want to live? take your selenium :)

High Risk of HIV-Related Mortality Is Associated With Selenium Deficiency
http://journals.lww.com/jaids/Abstract/ ... ted.7.aspx

I used zinc and selenium and nutrition in general to get rid of a family member's chronic EBV too.

it doesn't matter what sort of infection you have, it's whether your immune system has what it needs to fight :)

I am staying with family this week and everyone in the house got a touch of the common cold. two of us went for the ACESZn therapy and the other two stuck with lemsips and TCP and paracetamol. two of us are better now and two of us are not. >:) evil grin >:)
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Re: What if not bacteria but virus?????

Postby SarahLonglands » Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:03 am

Thanks JL, that could well be why I haven't had a cold for the last ten years!

Gogo, I am not hostile to anything or anyone: it isn't in my nature.

Sarah
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Re: What if not bacteria but virus?????

Postby CuriousRobot » Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:08 am

So, in 1996, in Sweden, Lycke et al. administered 800 mg of acyclovir, a common anti-viral, ter in die, for two years. The trial was randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind; in short, gold standard. At the end of the trial, researchers concluded that: "neurological parameters were essentially unaffected by acyclovir treatment and there were no convincing signs of reduced neurological deterioration in the acyclovir group."

It should be noted that there was a statistically significant reduction in exacerbations, according to a particular sub-group during post-hoc analysis. In spite of this, the method of treatment still bears resemblance to current strategies.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8936350
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Re: What if not bacteria but virus?????

Postby Liberation » Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:47 pm

Gogo,
it is an interesting question, but what if both. I am not a doctor, but e.g. pneumonia can be caused by different bacterias and viruses as well. Couldn't it be with MS?
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Re: What if not bacteria but virus?????

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:46 pm

or possibly they are comorbid with ms. opportunistic infections indicating a poorly nourished immune system...
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Re: What if not bacteria but virus?????

Postby CureOrBust » Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:30 pm

even the most nourished immune system will not guarantee a victory against certain pathogens. Although still not historically 100% fatal eg Zaire ebolavirus (ZEBOV), I would be sure that these involved at least some medical treatment beyond nourishment.
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Re: What if not bacteria but virus?????

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:06 am

hyperbole. if we must go to extremes, here's what science has to say re selenium and ebola

straight results of a google scholar search on
selenium ebola

http://scholar.google.ca/scholar?q=ebol ... as_sdt=0,5

[PDF] Theoretical Evidence that the Ebola Virus Zaire Strain May Be Selenium-Dependent: A Factor in Pathogenesis and Viral Outbreaks?
EW Taylor, CS Ramanathan - Journal of Orthomolecular …, 1995 - orthomolecular.org
Abstract A theoretical analysis of the genomic structure of the Ebola virus Zaire strain reveals the existence of several open reading frames (ORFs) containing large numbers of in-frame UGA codons. This clustering of UGA codons is very unlikely to have arisen by chance, and ...

[PDF] from orthomolecular.org
"... passage through nutritionally deficient hosts may facilitate evolutionary changes in infectious agents. In this communication, we present theoretical molecular evidence that the highly pathogenic Zaire strain of the Ebola virus may be dependent on the trace mineral selenium (Se), ... by analogy to other known examples, this raises the possibility that Se deficiency in host populations may actually foster viral replication, possibly triggering outbreaks and perhaps even facilitating the emergence of more virulent viral strains...."

[PDF] Selenium and viral diseases: Facts and hypotheses
EW Taylor - Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine, 1997 - orthomolecular.org
... fever viruses, and they may share common mechanisms.49 This example suggests that pharmacologi- cal doses of Se may also have some benefit in infections due to other hemorrhagic fe- ver viruses, including Ebola. ... 233 Selenium and Viral Diseases: Facts and Hypotheses ...

[CITATION] Is Selenium Deficiency Behind Ebola, AIDS and Other Deadly Infections
J Challem - 1995 - … . thenutritionreporter. com/selenium. …

Review: micronutrient selenium deficiency influences evolution of some viral infectious diseases
M Harthill - Biological trace element research, 2011 - Springer
... Abstract Recently emerged viral infectious diseases (VIDs) include HIV/AIDS, influenzas H5N1 and 2009 H1N1, SARS, and Ebola hemorrhagic fevers. Earlier research determined metabolic oxidative stress in hosts deficient in antioxidant selenium (Se) (<1 μMol Se/L of blood ...

Selenium: an essential element for immune function
RC McKenzie, TS Rafferty, GJ Beckett - Immunology today, 1998 - Elsevier
... Human diseases associated with Se deficiency are listed in Appendix Band below. 4. Selenium and viral diseases. ... Interestingly several viruses (molluscum contagiosum, HIV-1, coxsackie B and Ebola) contain sequences with homology to GPX (Ref. ...
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Re: What if not bacteria but virus?????

Postby Gogo » Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:17 am

Anecdote wrote:Thanks JL, that could well be why I haven't had a cold for the last ten years!


So, Anecdote, we do not need vaccine against Cpn? Things are solved by taking selenium and zink. :)
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