Marshall Protocol or olmesartan anyone?

A forum for the discussion of antibiotics as a potential therapy for MS

Marshall Protocol or olmesartan anyone?

Postby pawel96 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:51 pm

Hi,

well, these are actually two questions. Did anyone have luck with either Marshall Protocol or olmesartan alone? MP is quite controversial, involves lowering vit D levels, antibiotics, but it apparently helps in some cases of autoimmune diseases. Olmesartan alone has interesting antiinflammatory properties, so might be useful in MS as well without playing with vit D.

I am quite interested how this works in MS.

Pawel
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Re: Marshall Protocol or olmesartan anyone?

Postby pawel96 » Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:14 am

On MP's forum I found this:

http://curemyth1.org/forum2/2490.html

But I am looking for more experiences with olme and MS.

Pawel
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Re: Marshall Protocol or olmesartan anyone?

Postby SarahLonglands » Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:17 am

Pawel, I don't want to appear rude, but nobody on this forum takes benicar (olmesartan) and certainly they don't go the whole hog with the Marshall Protocol. If there is someone here thy are keeping quiet about it!

Sarah
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Re: Marshall Protocol or olmesartan anyone?

Postby Anonymoose » Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:33 am

Hi Pawel,
I've not done either but I have tried an anti hypertensive med that reduced aldosterone in a different way than benicar does. It did reduce symptoms. Do a search for clonidine diary and you will find details of my experience. I had to quit taking it as my blood pressure eventually went too low.

Another drug that was wonderful for symptoms is fenofibrate...works the anti inflammatory pathway. My experience with it is documented in the regimen forum. I don't take it anymore as I don't believe down regulating our immune response is the right thing to do. But if that is something you have faith in, feno truly was wonderful for me.

Good luck!
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Re: Marshall Protocol or olmesartan anyone?

Postby pawel96 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:48 am

Hi,

Sarah, I am not trying to advocate MP. I am only trying to evaluate it in context of my lyme-and-or-ms story. I know many people say it is absurd to avoid sunshine and vitamin D (hello north-south gradient of MS prev.) but please note this protocol does not base only on vitamin D! It involves abx and olmesartan. I got interested in it because:

1) long term abx gave me herx reactions and bettering, but unfortunately a relapse after discontinuing
2) I am light sensitive and react to heat, and yes, MP explains that (or at least addresses this issue)
3) I am low on vit D-25 OH (19ng/ml) and high on the other metabolite D-1,25 (ca 60pg/ml)

And, yes I know that many people got much, much worse on MP, and they wish they did not start it at all because it ruined rest of their health.
I experimented with very low doses (10mg) of olme on myself, herxed a little bit, and then got better. Of course, then I stopped and got worse.

So I am not on olmesartan, not on MP, just doing research.

Pawel
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Re: Marshall Protocol or olmesartan anyone?

Postby SarahLonglands » Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:30 am

OK, so how long were you taking abx and which ones? Oh, and what dosage as well? Maybe you just weren't taking them for long enough.

I take on average 5000mcg of D3 a day and I have no idea what my vit D rating is. I have not taken any antibiotics for about six years, apart from five days of roxithromycin when I got a septic finger earlier this year. I certainly have had no MS worsening.
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Re: Marshall Protocol or olmesartan anyone?

Postby pawel96 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:42 am

OK, so how long were you taking abx and which ones? Oh, and what dosage as well?


Started with clarithromycin (2x500mg), cefuroxim (2x500mg), tinidazole (2x500mg) for 1.5month (horrible herxes, I thought I am going crazy or will die, could not sleep for a month). Then roxythromycin 2x200mg, ceftriaxone 4g/4days in a row, then doxycycline (2x200mg) and clarithromycin (2x500mg), then switched to minocycline 2x100mg plus levofloxacin 1x500mg. Pulsed tinidazole every 15 days. Then switched to amoxicillin (up to 6g daily) plus roxythromycin 2x200mg. I felt best on roxythromycin. All this took ca 2 years. I don't suppose these dosages were too low.

But my best decision so far was to give up dairy. I changed my diet to gluten and dairy free, similar to TW's paleo diet. 50-70% less symptoms for free.

Nevertheless, I don't feel 100% (I was sick for 13 years before treatment). I am trying to find better solutions, that's why I am looking into MP.

Pawel
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Re: Marshall Protocol or olmesartan anyone?

Postby SarahLonglands » Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:56 pm

Better ask on the Marshall Protocol site for that. You might not feel 100%, but after I stopped all abx I continued to improve: it takes time.

Roxithromycin is an excellent antibiotic, though!

Sarah
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Re: Marshall Protocol or olmesartan anyone?

Postby MacKintosh » Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:54 am

Okay, first my disclaimer. I think the MP is poppycock. Human beings are not designed to be deprived of sunlight/D3. I've read a bit on MP lately (by accident) and saw he now says abx are not required at all. I guess that's a good thing, because the amounts of abx he used to advocate were subclinical doses, which is worse than not taking abx at all.

Now, ignoring my disclaimer, :smile: there are a good number of good folks on that other site (cpn help) who tried MP and then switched to Wheldon or Stratton's combined antibiotic protocol and are either improving or have recovered and gotten on with their lives.
The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi
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Re: Marshall Protocol or olmesartan anyone?

Postby MSandI » Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:47 am

Hi Mackintosh,
I fully agree with you, the theory of sunlight was proven by Florence Nightingale as a way and means of recovery. Human beings.. basic needs theory.
Ann
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Re: Marshall Protocol or olmesartan anyone?

Postby pawel96 » Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:46 am

Many PwMS feel worse when it is too hot and are light sensitive - avoiding this makes them feel better (1). Restricting vit D in diet - look at MP's dietary guidelines - is in fact restricting fats (dairy, eggs, etc) (2). Olmesartan is antiinflammatory - (3).

If you look that way at MP - considering points 1, 2 and 3 - it is no so stupid and actually somehow Swank or diet related. Just don't go to deep into that vit D (metabolites 25, 1,25) theories. I think simple explanations are more likely. Occam's razor.

Pawel
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Re: Marshall Protocol or olmesartan anyone?

Postby SarahLonglands » Fri Nov 29, 2013 9:51 am

Restricting vitamin D is wrong! Ok, if you are an adult you won't get rickets but you can end up with osteoporosis amongst other things. I was light and heat sensitive when I started the Vanderbilt protocol, but much less so now but I took and take a minimum of 5,000 iu a day of vitamin D and I never restricted the amount of dairy and eggs in my diet.

There is a pint to Trevor Marshall if you have sarcoidosis, but only that.

Sarah
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Re: Marshall Protocol or olmesartan anyone?

Postby MacKintosh » Fri Nov 29, 2013 9:53 am

Pawel, The problem is, 'feeling better' is not the same as BEING better. If I break a bone and take a painkiller, yes, I'll 'feel better', but that does nothing to address the cause of the pain, which is the broken bone.

Taking an anti-inflammatory will help one 'feel better', but unless you kill off the disease that's causing the inflammation, you're still sick.

I don't see anything about the MP that could kill the cpn bacterial infection.
The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi
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Re: Marshall Protocol or olmesartan anyone?

Postby pawel96 » Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:11 am

Restricting vitamin D is wrong!


Yes, of course. What I want to say is that when MP advocates D restriction it leads among other things to fat restriction. People might feel better not because their D dropped from like 30ng/ml to 19ng/ml (hard to detect these nanograms, isn't it?) but because their fat intake significantly dropped - this would be grams/day. In the end Swank/Jelinek's approaches work for a subset of patients.

I don't see anything about the MP that could kill the cpn bacterial infection.


Well, you know about these 2 versions of MP - the new one is olme only, the old one combines abx with olme. That might be something.

Finally, please don't attack me. I am not on MP and I don't want to be on it. I just want to understand why it works for some people. And moreover, what is it with this fat issue and autoimmune diseases because apparently there is something.

Pawel
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Re: Marshall Protocol or olmesartan anyone?

Postby MacKintosh » Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:17 am

No one is attacking you. The conversation is about the merits, or lack thereof, of that so-called protocol.
The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi
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