I eliminated my post

A forum for the discussion of antibiotics as a potential therapy for MS

Fruit Cake Italian style

Postby SarahLonglands » Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:52 am

Dave, really, you still haven't answered my question about the type three secretion system, and because you don't know what to say you come up with the old chestnut about coffee causing yeast to proliferate. (I haven't noticed this in me.)

Joyce, I like fruit cake in moderation as well. What I don't like is the marzipan and icing that the UK is so fond of, but Milanese Panettone http://www.paluani.it/natale/panettone.htm is delicious and seems never to go stale. The largest immigrant population by far in Bedford is the Italian one, so we are well supplied with Italian produce. I found Corsicana yesterday when trying to find Cleburne fruit cakes! Corsicans used to be Italian once, before Napoleon came along.

Sarah
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Yummivecchio! (invented word)

Postby mormiles » Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:09 am

Sarah, I don't understand Italian, but reading the Italian description made that cake even yummier to me than the beautiful picture.
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Postby wilson » Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:29 pm

Sarah,

I can safely say that everyone is very grateful for everything you have done. Thank you for everything.

I hope you understand that we Christians have a unique way at looking at life. I feel that if the Lord allows me to be stricken by MS to serve His purpose, then, I am thankful that I can serve Him.


What benefit will it be to you
if you gain the whole world
but lose your own soul?
(Mark 8:36)


Sincerely
Tim

I seek to serve an Audience of One
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Postby beatms » Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:48 pm

Sarah:

What is the type 3 secretion system?

Dave
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Postby SarahLonglands » Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:32 am

Joyce, this gives you an English translation: http://www.paluani.it/en/natale/panettone.htm but it doesn't sound quite so "Yummivecchio!"

Thanks Tim, I understand completely, but there are Christians and Christians, just as there are people and people and Dave just annoys me, ever since he first came along with his talk of being cured by God and soil organisms. At least now he has admitted that he doesn't know what type three secretion systems are.

Well, Dave, here is a good place to start: http://users.path.ox.ac.uk/~ablocker/introduction.html But beware, they aren't very nice things, and only pathogens have them. "Friendly bacteria" don't. This link concerns shigellosis, a disease much prevalent developing countries, mostly in malnourished children who ingest water contaminated with faeces, children of your "people in other indigenous cultures that have virtually no illness." Chlamydia pneumoniae have them as well. I could find a picture, but there is much info in PubMed and even in Google.

Sarah
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Aha!

Postby mormiles » Fri Feb 23, 2007 8:17 pm

I'm tempted to say "elementary, my dear Watson," but it would require some perhaps "taboo" reading to grasp why I would say such a thing. Hmmm, so that's how the little buggers do it. To think I've had so many painless injections and didn't even know it! (No reason at this point to deny cryptic influences.)

At least a mosquito leaves a calling card...thank God they don't ruffle our skin for an engulfing welcome, but it makes me wonder if this is a trick used by invaders to evoke entrance into epidermal cells particularly.
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The Type Three Secretion System versus Intelligent Design

Postby SarahLonglands » Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:40 am

Joyce, Conan Doyle describes Sherlock Holmes's violin as being made from mahogany. If it was, it must have sounded absolutely dreadful! As well as being nearly impossible to carve out in the first place. David owns a violin made in Italy at the time when Shakespeare was just about still alive and I have worked on a small double-bass that was made quite a few years before that. However, that's diverging from the question to hand: The Type Three Secretion System and its friend, the Flagellum.

From: http://www.millerandlevine.com/km/evol/design2/article.html

The Type -III Secretory Apparatus

In the popular imagination, bacteria are "germs" – tiny microscopic bugs that make us sick. Microbiologists smile at that generalization, knowing that most bacteria are perfectly benign, and many are beneficial – even essential – to human life. Nonetheless, there are indeed bacteria that produce diseases, ranging from the mildly unpleasant to the truly dangerous. Pathogenic, or disease-causing, bacteria threaten the organisms they infect in a variety of ways, one of which is to produce poisons and inject them directly into the cells of the body. Once inside, these toxins break down and destroy the host cells, producing illness, tissue damage, and sometimes even death.

In order to carry out this diabolical work, bacteria must not only produce the protein toxins that bring about the demise of their hosts, but they must efficiently inject them across the cell membranes and into the cells of their hosts. They do this by means of any number of specialized protein secretory systems. One, known as the type III secretory system (TTSS), allows gram negative bacteria to translocate proteins directly into the cytoplasm of a host cell (Heuck 1998). The proteins transferred through the TTSS include a variety of truly dangerous molecules, some of which are known as "virulence factors," and are directly responsible for the pathogenic activity of some of the most deadly bacteria in existence (Büttner and Bonas 2002; Heuck 1998).


By the way, if you and Steve ever come to London, we can show you all the worthwhile sites, and take in a few Italian pastry shops for refreshment en-route.

Sarah
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Sweet Tooth

Postby mormiles » Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:29 am

Sarah, We hope to someday take you up on that invitation. Steve's genetic profile is 1/2 Italian, 1/4 Sicilian, 1/8 German, 1/8 Irish, and 100% sweet-tooth. He loves his Italian pastries and even bakes some of them. The discovery of his gluten sensitivity is truly sad, but it's reality has been clearly proven. Dr. X says that he should eventually be able to re-introduce gluten into his diet in moderate amounts, though, so he's looking forward to that almost as much as to the remaining improvements he will receive from the CAP. He's the type of sweets addict who has thoughts of sweet treats running through his head every few minutes. Of course, all types of sweets are limited while he is on the CAP in order to avoid yeast overgrowth, so Steve is becoming well acquainted with Stevia.
One little bright spot is that his chewable acidophilus is sweet and vanilla flavored.

Thanks for the link...I'll have to save it for this evening.
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Postby SarahLonglands » Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:29 pm

That's some genetic profile: all I can manage is 87.5% Anglo-Saxon and 12.5% Ashkenazi Jew, (a great grandmother who married an Anglican chief choirboy!) I haven't even got a terribly sweet tooth, but much more than DW. For this reason I don't feel the need to avoid a certain amount of honey or organic sugar. Figs and dates, two of my favourites, just keep you regular, so they are excused.

Have fun with the link, but remember what I said on CPn Help!

Sarah 8)
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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"The Flagellum Unspun"

Postby mormiles » Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:52 pm

Sarah, Fascinating article and Miller's argument countering the ID folks is beyond cogent---I agree with him. Beyond being evolutionists, I would classify Miller and myself as theistic evolutionists (he gave himself away at the end of the article). How does that square with my faith? Let's just say it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that the author was a member of the Society of Jesus. The Church doesn't see any conflict between evolution and the faith as long as it's kept straight that the creation of each soul is the direct action of God. In fact, evolution is taught in Catholic schools in the same way it is taught in secular schools. I don't think there are any evolutionists out there who are claiming that souls evolve, though I'm sure there are many atheists who claim that our notion of soul has evolved as a result of our having highly evolved brains.

As to why God would allow the TTSS to evolve and make us sick, I can't claim to have an inside track there. Perhaps it is because we were never intended to be immortal in our earthly walk, but only in our eternal walk with Him. Or perhaps the TTSS is an opposing player in our struggle against evil in the world, a struggle we are meant to overcome through the type of divine empowerment I mentioned earlier.
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Postby SarahLonglands » Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:06 pm

Well, whether he is a Jesuit or not, he is certainly a practising Roman Catholic and a very fine one at that. I remember back in the eighties, when I was only recently out of college, being told by my then landlady that fossils were put in rocks by the devil just to confuse us. She was also Roman Catholic and very highly educated, but from a fast diminishing school.

As for myself, though, I just can't figure why a God should create something just designed to cause harm. I don't think I'm being simplistic in that, but it just doesn't make sense.........Sarah
Last edited by SarahLonglands on Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Mystery

Postby mormiles » Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:17 pm

I'll repeat something I've heard and read dozens of times since converting with regard to the unexplainable..."it's a mystery." A "mystery" in the Church is more than something of an unknown nature, it's something of divine nature that is unknowable by our mortal minds.
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Postby SarahLonglands » Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:11 am

Joyce, you believe in mysteries, I believe in verifiable proof but we seem to have driven Dave away from this topic in this particular forum: he is about elsewhere.

Incidentally, I am married to a Christian, although one who would only call himself thus in the most metaphoric sense. I choose not to believe because I think it is all myth and legend in the same way that early Christians thought of, amongst other things, the Greek Mystery Religions, whilst absorbing certain facets into the new religion. What I do believe, though, is that Jesus was born a Jew and died a Jew: the religion came after.

Now I'm going to go and get on with a piece I'm writing for CPN.

Sarah
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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I'm wondering if supplements are even needed at all

Postby beatms » Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:16 am

I am begining to take the stance that supplements desinged to "treat MS" may never be needed, and that other variables such as diet or what we are not doing or taking anymore, may be what is actually triggering improvements. I think in our western society we feel like we have to take something, and when we do get better, we are quick to say,

"Well, it was because I took such and such," to feed our own addicition for feeling power and control more than anything.

The question is, How do you know, especially in light to that many people recover in time anyways, plus the fact that many people on the "regimines" are often doing multiple things? Just simply feeling like one is doing something can also improve one's state of mind, and we already know that stress has a huge impact on the immune system.

Perhaps, it isn't what you are doing, but what you are not doing. This statement is a nightmare for people that have addiction issues.

Peace,
Dave
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Postby SarahLonglands » Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:21 am

Dave, I knew that it was the antibiotics that stopped the relentless progression of my MS because with progressive disease you don't get better, according to conventional wisdom. This progression stopped as soon as I started taking them and I haven't had an MS exacerbation since. I had only been taking Vit D before that, at 4000iu a day, for maybe six months, but I had just carried on progressing.

Sarah 8)
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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