I eliminated my post

A forum for the discussion of antibiotics as a potential therapy for MS

I eliminated my post

Postby beatms » Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:59 pm

I eliminated my post
Last edited by beatms on Thu Aug 07, 2008 9:26 am, edited 25 times in total.
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Postby SarahLonglands » Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:39 am

Oh, shame! Perhaps, Dave, the time has come for you to start on either the Vanderbilt or the Wheldon regime:
http://www.davidwheldon.co.uk/ms-treatment.html

I really can't see that God has anthing to do with it, else why would he have given anyone the wretched disease in the first place?

Sarah
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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God's Purpose

Postby beatms » Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:42 am

Sarah:

I really can't see that God has anthing to do with it, else why would he have given anyone the wretched disease in the first place?


*Perhaps it is to bring people together. Amazingly we are communicating from all parts of the world! Isn't Love to be shared? How often do we privatize this and only keep it to ourselves?

*Perhaps it is so that God can be glorified through healing miracles that you and I (and others have witnessed).

*Perhaps it is to provide God's people with employment with the treatment regimins possible for the disease.

*Perhaps it is to bring God's kingdom to a more spiritual focus, by making some of our physical bodies useless.

Sarah, the truth is, your question can only be answered by God. Remember, His ways are above our ways. I can give possibilities, but He is the one that is all knowing. It may not be until this earthly life is over before your question can be fully answered, and that you may be able to say to Him, "Oh, so that's why you did that!"

Faith in God's infinate control involves believing without seeing.

Love, Dave
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Postby SarahLonglands » Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:29 am

I can't see how a God would do such a wicked thing to me, therefore I don't think there is such a being. Sarah
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Postby SarahLonglands » Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:43 am

But just suppose there is, why did the Almighty DIYer make the Type Three Secretion System (found only in pathogens)?

Sarah :wink:
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Postby CureOrBust » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:12 am

Anecdote wrote:But just suppose there is, why did the Almighty DIYer make the Type Three Secretion System (found only in pathogens)?
I dont see how you ever expect to "win" a discussion against someones "beliefs", as by definition, they do not need scientific substantiation or meet rational scientific criteria.

Where on the otherhand, I am shocked you let this statement fly :)
beatms wrote:...oil of oregano ...the most potent antibiotic/anti-yeast compound in the world
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Postby SarahLonglands » Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:31 am

No, I don't suppose I ever am, but something in me likes to try sometimes. As for the statement about oil of oregano being the most potent antibiotic/anti-yeast compound in the world, you are right to be shocked at me letting that one fly. 8O But I thought it just too ludicrous to be bothered with, along the lines of this one, above:

*Perhaps it is to bring God's kingdom to a more spiritual focus, by making some of our physical bodies useless.


I can just picture me still hobbling along, stinking to high heaven like the waste bin round the back of Casa Rosa, but with the beatific glow of a saint in a fresco by Giotto. :wink:
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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From one believer to another

Postby mormiles » Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:36 pm

Hi Dave, I read your long blog on why you think you ended up with MS several months ago, and I remember it. In fact, I took your recommendation and bought some Garden of Life Primal Defense for my husband who has SPMS. Since then, we have switched to Probiotic Defense by Now Foods which is cheaper and works as well or better. I agree with you that the too frequent use of antibiotics in your early life may have contributed to your illness, but I have noticed that you seem to place the blame on the antibiotics. It seems to me that the blame lies with the doctors who prescribed the antibiotics too frequently and not with the antibiotics themselves. What was worse than the over-prescribing of the antibiotics, though, was that those doctors did not also pass on the instruction to follow the short antibiotic courses with yogurt, buttermilk, or some other probiotic food or supplement. Antibiotics are not in and of themselves evil. Unfortunately, the incomplete treatment by your childhood doctors is the norm. Until finding the Wheldon and Vanderbilt CAPs, the only other source of correct abx use I encountered was from my wise old Dutch doctor who advised to always followup antibiotics with probiotic foods.

About the oregano oil...I have read on the web pages of some of the distributors that taking a break now and then is a good idea. You mentioned that "there is evidence to show that taking these strong albeit helpful aids every day consecutively can really cause a locking of the system and shut-down effect, and could pose long term damage if care is not taken." Dave, when someone makes a statement like that, the source should be given, not just mentioned. That's far too vague to be taken seriously. When my husband takes his short breaks from oregano oil, he sticks with the olive leaf extract, caprylic acid, circumin, and Lauricidin. We will keep it up too, because antifungal measures are a necessary and integral part of the Wheldon CAP. I'm aware of your views on the CAP, but I can tell you that since last August when he started the CAP, my husband's MS has reversed to where it was about 4 years ago. What if he has to supplement antifungals and probiotics the rest of his life? That's a bargain!

Last year I gave up evening television for Lent. That gave me the opportunity to spend more time on the internet searching for an effective treatment for my husband...and I found it. While God does enact miracles directly, I believe that most of His miracles are enacted indirectly through us. From that perspective, most healing work is wrought through the healing efforts of human beings that have been empowered by God in a multitude of ways, from a fascination with grasshoppers or worms that leads to the study of biology that leads to a medical career, to what seem to be chance connections of diverse bits of information at just the right moment in the psyche of just the right individual. God guides us and uses us in ways that are imperceptible unless we choose to see His hand at work in our lives. On the subject of God's role in MS...here are my thoughts. God does not cause someone to get MS, but he let's it happen that a greater good will come from it. In the case of Sarah (sorry Sarah for talking about you), perhaps Sarah's MS was allowed to happen so that her husband would take the actions he has taken which have helped so many more than Sarah. That work is still in motion and will be far-reaching. In your case Dave, you have exposed the mistakes your childhood doctors made in over-prescribing antibiotics without probiotic followup. Who knows how many will be helped by the fact that you exposed that misuse?...And you wouldn't have done it if you didn't have MS.
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Postby SarahLonglands » Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:27 pm

Crumbs, Joyce, I don't think anyone has taken my name in vain in such a way before! I know though, that we won't fall out due to the fact that we both have such radically different views about certain things. Just to prove that, here is a load of info about turmeric which DW sent me earlier:

http://www.avenues-of-sight.com/07-02-20-Curcumin-References.doc

I don't intend to try oregano oil: it might put me off using oregano in food, but turmeric is a different matter.

Sarah
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Unexpected response

Postby mormiles » Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:39 pm

Sarah, When I wrote about you, I giggled to think what sort of response I might get from you. I'm sorry to admit that it amuses me to push the buttons of people I'm fond of. Little did I suspect that your response would be so "Christian." (Sorry, Sarah, I couldn't resist that)

On the topic of turmeric/circumin...Steve and I both take it daily. His dosage was just increased by half again as much as he was taking before this past week. And he has had a wonderful week! I'm currently off of it because I'm temporarily abstaining from anything purple, red, or orange due to the colonoscopy coming up Friday. Also, I'm in the midst of several minor dermatological surgeries, so I'm avoiding all my usual supplements that might facilitate freer bleeding. I don't feel as well as I was feeling before beginning this sabbatical, and I'm anxious to get back on my usual regimen. It's good to know the rusty stuff will be de-rusting my joints again soon.

Thanks for the caring and peace-binding offering. It's my turn to do something for you. I thought about sending you one of those fruit cakes from Cleburne, Texas for Christmas, but they are controversial, so I thought better of it. You're an artist, so you must be an art enthusiast as well. Maybe I'll send you an original by me that would be suitable to stick on the front of your refrigerator. I'll be thinking on it. Hmmm. Maybe I'll give up something for Lent this year that I can send to you. Happy Shrove Tuesday, Joyce
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Postby beatms » Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:52 am

Joyce,

You mentioned feeling worse after taking a break. This is quite normal, as the body wakes up and says, "I'm not being overburdened, and so I can actually take care of some toxic waste, creating more issues temporarily" Afterwards, the body often finds renewed strength and vitality, if we allow the body to heal.

I think part of the problem is that we are trying to substitute our body's healing potential for drugs or supplements, when the goal of therapy (in my opinion) is to stimulate, not substitute, the body's own abilities.Moreover, as I said earlier, God does not want to be replaced as Healer.

I cannot underscore the word addiction enough during this time.

Look at how people in other indiginous cultures that have virtually no illness. When they do fall ill, they go to a healer for a one-shot anecdote. They do not ingest medication or supplements multiple times a day many days of the year. This is how I, and probably most people in America got chronically ill in the first place! The western world is very power and control oriented leading to all kinds of sick addictions.

I'm giving you my opinion from my own and my clients experiences. You can take it for what ever it is worth.

Happy Ash Wednseday.

Love, Dave
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Postby SarahLonglands » Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:17 am

Hello Joyce, please tell me what a fruit cake from Cleborne is, and why it is controversial. But first, thank you for wanting to send me something! I have never baked a cake in my life apart from once in a cookery lesson at school, but that is best forgotten. Until about three years ago we did used to get regular supplies of "Housekeeper Cake" from a neighbour, given to him by his deceased brother's housekeeper, but in much larger quantities than he could manage.

I'm very glad to hear that Steve has had a wonderful week, though: long may it continue. :)

Dave, I know you said earlier that God does not want to be replaced as Healer, but why does he make it so difficult for himself by making people sick in the first place? A rhetorical question to which I don't expect an answer because we are always going to think differently. I have probably said to you before that I was the fittest, healthiest person in my circle, even after MS took hold, until about eight years ago. I wasn't addicted to anything apart from maybe freshly ground coffee and I only took antibiotics twice, for no more than five day each time. But my main question hasn't been answered yet:

Why did your God make the Type Three Secretion System (found only in pathogens)? :?

Sarah
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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coffee or any caffeine is not benign to gut flora

Postby beatms » Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:15 pm

I know how you all like science research, so I did a little research. This shows that caffeine can cause yeast to proliferate. Coffee can be especially harsh on the digestive tract.


Mycoses.
1994 Sep-Oct;37(9-10):337-41. Links
Structural alterations in Candida albicans by caffeine and caffeine salts.Mittag H.
Medizinisches Zentrum fur Hautkrankheiten, Philipps-Universitat Marburg, Germany.

Cytological alterations of Candida albicans following exposure to subinhibitory concentrations of caffeine and caffeine salts were examined by light and transmission electron microscopy (TEM). The effect was different from that induced by ketoconazole. Caffeine and especially caffeine salts caused an increase in unusual modes of proliferation with signs of multiple budding in Candida albicans. Structurally, such yeast cells present some resemblance to Paracoccidioides brasiliensis.

PMID: 7746292 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE
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Postby mormiles » Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:02 pm

Dave, I have no idea where you are getting ideas like peoples of indigenous cultures are so well. My impression from everything else I've ever heard or read is that disease and mortality rates are high in those cultures. I'm not a coffee drinker, a rare tea drinker, I don't care for soft drinks, I eat a very healthy diet, and I felt crummy before I started my supplement regimen. I've been plagued with chronic respiratory infections for as long as I can remember and have only received antibiotics on a few occasions. My way of dealing with those infections over the years has been to allow my immune system to fight the infections. The only exceptions have been when I've had pneumonia or severe bronchitis that was obviously headed for pneumonia. I look to my oldest sister's health as a preview of what is coming for me. We both have the same body type, and she has the same set of health problems I have...only much more advanced. She has practically no immune system left, although throughout her life, she also has generally allowed her immune system to get plenty of exercise at fighting off illness. Now when she catches whatever is going around, it just doesn't go away, and after weeks of toughing it out, she ends up in the hospital.

So what do I think about my sister who like me also has arthritis, HBP, high cholesterol, borderline type II diabetes, and atherosclerosis? And what do I think about her daughter who has Lupus and has also been plagued by respiratory infections since childhood? And what about me? I think Cpn infection is rampant in my family. What's worse is that I feel like I've been a Cpn dispenser for my husband whose MS was very slow progressing until he and I got together. I used to feel guilty about it, but now I realize that if his increased exposure hadn't come from me, it would have come from someone else.

When I'm on my usual regimen of supplements, why am I taking the particular collection I'm taking? The collection happens to be those supplements recommended on the Wheldon CAP, because I intend to be starting it soon myself for these reasons: 1) so I won't reinfect Steve, 2) atherosclerosis, 3) arthritis, 4) the chronic respiratory infections, 5) that whole HBP/high cholesterol/borderline diabetic profile. By the way, I haven't had a single respiratory infection since I started the supplement regimen (hooray for NAC!). My oldest sister and I have body types and health problems like my father and his family. Daddy died at age 62 from his 3rd heart attack...that's too young to die, and his last 10 years were not good ones. Ash Wednesday reminds us that our earthly life is fleeting. I'm not trying to live forever, but I do intend to be as healthy as I should be until it's my time.
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The controversy of fruitcakes

Postby mormiles » Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:35 pm

Hi Sarah, Oops! I got the name of the town wrong. It's in Corsicana, not Cleburne. Collin Street Bakery in Corsicana is famous in the "world" of fruitcakes. It's fruitcakes in general that are "controversial." They are rich, heavy, and some would say hard...definitely chewy because of such a high content of candied fruit and nuts, and they tend to hang around for a long time. Some people love them and others just roll their eyes at the mere mention of fruit cakes. Some people who receive them as gifts end up giving them away as gifts. There are even rumors that some are given away as gifts the following year. They have a reputation for being almost "immortal." And of course, they tend to be the butt of jokes aroung holiday time. Personally, I like them, but it's always an unknown when considering who might like to receive one. See http://www.collinstreet.com/pages/deluxe_fruitcake.
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