Doxy plus interferon

A forum for the discussion of antibiotics as a potential therapy for MS

Doxy plus interferon

Postby mrhodes40 » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:18 am

Here's a BBC story on how doxycycline improved outcomes when, used alongside interferon in patients how had been poor responders to the interferon alone

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7136088.stm

Notice no body said word one about resistance .......... :wink:
The researchers believe that doxycycline, a member of the tetracycline family of antibiotics, may block an enzyme which destroys nerve cells, thus protecting the brain and increasing the effectiveness of the immune system.

Dr Laura Bell, of the MS Society, said: "Antibiotics are cheap and easily available, which would make them an attractive treatment for MS if they were shown to be beneficial.

"However this study is very early stage in only 15 people with MS and no firm conclusions can be drawn at this stage."

Chris Jones, chief executive of the MS Trust, agreed that the study was small, and had only covered a short period of time.

"A longer trial with more people will be needed before we can properly gauge the value of this combination for people with MS."

Helen Yates, of the MS Resource Centre, said the condition was complex and difficult.

She said other work was examining the possibility that MS was linked to an infection of the bacterium Chlamydia pneumoniae - more commonly associated with respiratory disease - in the brain.

"The growing interest in combination therapies is producing some good results, in particular for those people for whom single therapies have not worked."



Once again we do see the assertion that abx have properties other than the antiinfective, but I was pleased to see they acknowledge the work that suggests MS is CPn related.

It is incredible that there is any resistance at all to people using abx, a few more studies like this and people will begin to hear "well we might add minocycline (or doxy) to your regimen...." from the neuro's! :lol:

I can see my smug fellow hiking up his pants and telling me what "WE now know" about abx............... :lol:
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Postby Loriyas » Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:01 am

Thanks for this Marie. When I returned from my first appointment at Vanderbilt and met with my local neurologist to tell her I was going to begin antibiotic regimen her response was "that trying antibiotics was nothing new and that it would not work". I continued in spite of her lack of support and also continue to see her as needed. Maybe someday she will become a believer (or maybe not) but at least she didn't stand in my way! This study just shows, once again, that patients know best what they need to try if they are unhappy with their current therapy. As I have said before, all we can do is try something then report our experiences. But it does help to have some outside validation! Thanks again
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Postby MacKintosh » Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:49 pm

Marie, It's so good to see you active and kicking up a little dust here on the board again!

Your neuro might decide to be smug and pontificate, but in my case... I think it'll be me, acting all smug, as I simper into my young neuro's office and waggle my finger in his face. And I might just hop up and down on one foot, eyes closed, as I exit the office! Just to drive home the point.
The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi
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Postby mrhodes40 » Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:53 pm

lol :lol:

I mean, really, even if it does not work for an individual person, is that such a terrible thing? every board here has its share of "Tysbetacopa mab didn't work for me".

My own new neuro (old story, run if you heard it) said that he prescribed novantrone 4 times and only ONE patient had any positive result . But all 4 got the heart damage and the one who was helped got it worst and has passed away from it 8O . he refuses to prescribe it again.

BTW he remains against abx in general for worthlessness, but "let's" me because there is nothing else to do for my SPMS. he has basically told me "you're screwed, give up" ...uhhh, right... now that's a plan

so what was that reason to not try abx again? :?
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Postby ursula » Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:39 am

strange...: nothing about the side effects...?

I read a similar article in 2007, also on interferon + doxycyclin.
of the 15 people taking part in the trial, almost everyone had nasty side effects:
nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, heartburn...
sorry, I wouldn`t be so keen on taking antibiotics permanently.
Sounds as if they want to mix two bad therapies to get a good one?

I get real bad diarrhea after only 1 week of antibiotics (takes at least 4 weeks to go away afterwards)

And what about antibiotic resistance?

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Postby mrhodes40 » Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:56 am

Hi Ursla,
I take copaxone and abx, I have never had the nasty side effects you have had if they work that way on you, I assume you never will take them. I wouldn't if that was me.

For most people abx are cheap and safe, that's why they said that in the article.

Also according to my doctor, 80% of the antibiotics used in America are used in the food industry, on cattle and pigs etc. and this is the CAUSE of resistance in the population according to her, a chronic disease specialist, NOT people trying to treat disease. This is the doc that prescribes my abx without the slightest qualm.

Obviously you won't take them, but maybe others will find they help.
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Postby Loriyas » Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:33 pm

Hi Ursula
The antibiotic resistance issue is addressed by taking the various antibiotics in tandem with each other. You are right, a person can develop resistance if not used properly. However, it is common to prescribe just minocycline to teenagers for acne for an extended period of time and no one seems to worry about resistance in that instance. So as long as the protocol is followed properly resistance should not be an issue.
I am certainly glad I am doing the antibiotic protocol but I make sure I follow it as prescribed. It is not always easy (as you have found out) but thus far has been well worth it. Time will tell!
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Postby ursula » Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:52 am

So here is no one with side effects? That´s good to hear!

Do you think it works? Do you feel better with antibiotics?

All the best,

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Postby Loriyas » Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:22 am

I am not saying that I don't have effects from taking the antibiotics. I have had various effects but I do not blame them specifically on the antibiotic. I believe they are effects due to the killing of the bacteria in question. And they are tolerable enough to continue.

As far as wondering if it is working, I definitely believe so. Otherwise I wouldn't continue after a whole year of this. I think a person has to work through the "die-off" effects that happen. I actually look at this as a positive in that the antibiotics are doing their jobs-killing the culprit.

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Postby mrhodes40 » Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:52 pm

Well there's kind of 2 things going on in this thread. Thanks to everyone for comments! I started it on a article that was offereing that doxy could be added to regular therapies as an adjunct and that this is showing helpful.

Loriyas, OTOH, is talking about the CAP protocol for MS which is using several antibiotics in tandem, a combination devised to prevent resisitance and based on the theory that MS is induced by Clamydia pneumoniae. While adding doxy to a regular MS regimen like betaferon as an adjunct to slow inflammation is one thing, as the article was discussing, taking 3 antibiotics in a CAP protocol and experiencing die off reactions etc is kind of another. I'm pretty sure that the person using doxy along with betaferon is not having die off at all.

So ursula if you'd like to explore the CAP plan that Loriyas is talking about at all, you can go to CPn Help(dot)org --use normal internet puctuation to get there--and look into it if you like. Good luck!

I still say it is interesting that this continues to be explored as an adjunct therapy and will eventually make it more easy to do CAP if one wants.

I feel compelled to add that I personally feel a lot better on antibiotics but I have progressed also, so for me there is something else that needs to be addressed as well.
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Postby Loriyas » Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:41 am

Didn't mean to get the thread off topic. I was just trying to answer Ursula's question. Ursula, as Marie suggested, if you would like more thorough explanation go to CPn Help.org. There is a lot of information there.
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Postby mrhodes40 » Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:08 am

No problem Loriyas! it is interesting material you added but I wanted to be clear fo those who are new to the abx idea overall where the differences are there... :D
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