anti- inflammatory?

A forum for the discussion of antibiotics as a potential therapy for MS

anti- inflammatory?

Postby robbie » Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:56 am

Are antibiotics an anti- inflammatory?
Had ms for over 19 years now.
User avatar
robbie
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1148
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 4:00 pm
Location: Northern Ontario, Canada

Advertisement

Postby notasperfectasyou » Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:21 am

I don't think so. Taking antibiotics actually seems to bring about inflammation which abx'ers generally control with stuff like Ibuprofen. Thinking about it, killing off a bacteria would leave a lot of dead stuff for the immune system to clean up, thus, an inflammatory response would be initiated. Sometimes this can be pretty disturbing because it can have the "feel" of an exaserbation. This is one reason that it's not such a good idea to dabble in abx, it really is a committment because once the battle with the bacteria is initiated, it's pretty important to stay on top of it until a lot of the side effects have quieted down. I'm sure others will correct me if I'm off target. Ken
User avatar
notasperfectasyou
Family Elder
 
Posts: 774
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Northern Virginia

Postby robbie » Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:37 am

Minocycline must have anti-inflammatory properties
Had ms for over 19 years now.
User avatar
robbie
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1148
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 4:00 pm
Location: Northern Ontario, Canada

absolutely!

Postby duncan1 » Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:45 pm

The antibiotics doxycycline and minocycline inhibit the inflammatory responses to the Lyme disease spirochete Borrelia burgdorferi.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19301981

Anti-inflammatory activity of tetracyclines.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17430750

This is my current favourite:

Minocycline may attenuate postherpetic neuralgia.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19467572

I had a recent (3 weeks ago) shingles attack with rash, and I am certain that minocycline has dramatically reduced the pain and neurodamage. I had the same symptoms - without the shingles rash- a year ago, and took a course of minocycline and the symptoms dramatically abated. minocycline is amazing stuff and has fantastic neuroprotective, anti-inflammatory properties.
User avatar
duncan1
Getting to Know You...
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 3:00 pm
Location: Langley BC Canada

Postby robbie » Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:48 am

Anti-inflammatory activity of tetracyclines.

Could someone take one of these just to get the anti-inflammatory benefits of them regardless of what’s causing the inflammation?
Had ms for over 19 years now.
User avatar
robbie
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1148
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 4:00 pm
Location: Northern Ontario, Canada

Postby Notdoneyet » Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:01 pm

Hi Robbie,

How are ya' doing? I shot a 94 today.

Re: anti-inflammatory issue

Dr. Luanne Metz, at the University of Calgary, who is also the director of the MS Clinic at the Foothills Hospital, has been working on this issue for quite some time. It was her study over five years ago that led me to try minocycline. The minocycline worked so well that I eventually started the Wheldon protocol and have been following that for just short of five years. Here is an announcement from 2004: http://www.mssociety.ca/en/research/med ... june04.htm

Dr Metz has gone on to study the use of minocycline along with Copaxone. She has done further studies and a couple of years ago, there was an announcement by the MS Society suggesting minocycline as an alternative treatment. The MS Clinics are not afraid to prescribe it now, to my knowledge.

The interesting part of it all is, that in all of the MS Society postings, they are careful not to call it an antibiotic. It is more often called "an acne medication" or just an anti-inflammatory. This way it still fits the anti-immune model.

You can google "metz, ms, minocycline" and you will get lots of good links on the subject.

Cheers,
Colin
Last edited by Notdoneyet on Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Notdoneyet
Family Member
 
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: Canada

Postby notasperfectasyou » Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:25 pm

Colin,
This is really illuminating! Kinda makes me wonder if the studies on Mino are conveniently chosing mino to avoid inflammation you'd get with the real stuff like flagyl. Do you have any insights on this?

Are you still on the protocol?

Ken
User avatar
notasperfectasyou
Family Elder
 
Posts: 774
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Northern Virginia

Postby Notdoneyet » Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:13 pm

Hi Ken,

I'm still on the complete Wheldon protocol and without an exacerbation since I started Mino over five years ago. Early in the treatment, I pronounced that I would consider myself cured if I went five years, since I had previosly had exacerbations at least every three years. I feel I might have deteriorated a bit, so I'm saving the "cured" status for now. I am definitely feeling much better overall and have a way better outlook on life and the prospects for my future. Heck, I still might break 80 one day!

I know that Dr Metz and the MS Society are aware of the bacterial theory and the work of Stratton, Wheldon, et al. It is only an uneducated opinion, but I think the MS world is so invested in the anti-immune model, that it is politically unpopular to even consider that the antibacterial properties of minocycline might have anything to do with it's success. That is why they rarely refer to it as an antibiotic, but as an acne medication.

I know that I noticed a distinct difference when adding each of the antibiotics in the Wheldon protocol. I have stopped the protocol twice , for periods of approximately six weeks and each time noticed numbness returning. It baffles me.

Colin
User avatar
Notdoneyet
Family Member
 
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: Canada

Postby notasperfectasyou » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:58 pm

Colin,
I know you've been an important part of CPn Help and I appreciate hearing your update. I've broken 80 once years ago, but if I played today I'd certainly shoot 110 or so. Are you a caffine user? There's new stuff just now making the rounds about caffine and cpn. I don't know that it sounds so baffling to me. There is a thread over there that discusses the half-life of stuff like naproxen and ibuprofen. Makes me wonder if the half-life concept applies to cpn infection - sort of. Rica is back on it after thinking she was done.
Ken
User avatar
notasperfectasyou
Family Elder
 
Posts: 774
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Northern Virginia

Postby robbie » Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:57 am

I shot a 94 today.

Is that for 9 holes? lol I was just thinking if the anti-inflammatory effects of the doxy would help plus the antibiotic if I have anything I shouldn’t.thanks for the info Colin
Had ms for over 19 years now.
User avatar
robbie
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1148
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 4:00 pm
Location: Northern Ontario, Canada

Postby SarahLonglands » Sat Aug 01, 2009 6:40 am

Hello all! There are antibiotics and antibiotics. Any of the tetracyclines can be classed as anti-inflammatory and neuro-protective, which doesn't necessarily mean they help with pain, but flagyl is a whole other thing, which is why David suggests people only take it for a week at a time, at most.

Robbie, if you want a smooth, clear skin, more and better conditioned hair after an initial hair loss, to look younger than you are and to eventually find your ideal weight, I should definitely start at least on doxycycline or minocycline.

By the way, I'm not sure what I understand the least: the rules of golf or of cricket.

Sarah
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
SarahLonglands
Family Elder
 
Posts: 2104
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 3:00 pm
Location: Bedfordshire UK

Postby robbie » Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:55 am

start at least on doxycycline

going to try if i can get a Rx just to see if i feel any different
Had ms for over 19 years now.
User avatar
robbie
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1148
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 4:00 pm
Location: Northern Ontario, Canada

Postby SarahLonglands » Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:15 pm

Robbie, didn't you try minocycline for a while but stop it because it made you feel so bad? Doxycycline is very similar, but in any case, the way you were feeling was more than likely your body fighting the germs, in which case it won't last, so you should stick with it for a while.

Sarah
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
SarahLonglands
Family Elder
 
Posts: 2104
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 3:00 pm
Location: Bedfordshire UK

Postby robbie » Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:40 pm

didn't you try minocycline for a while but stop it because it made you feel so bad?

yes
so you should stick with it for a while.


i will
Had ms for over 19 years now.
User avatar
robbie
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1148
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 4:00 pm
Location: Northern Ontario, Canada

Postby notasperfectasyou » Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:45 pm

I completely defer to Sarah on this, since my experience with abx is limited to those that Kim is taking. But, while on doxy, should one be concerned about die-off and porpyria? We know first hand that it can be really scary to be facing the side-effects head on for the first time. Once we've done it a while, they tend to ease, but the first few times, it can really make you second guess yourself. More power to you Robbie! Ken
User avatar
notasperfectasyou
Family Elder
 
Posts: 774
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Northern Virginia

Next

Return to Antibiotics

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users