Question from the Netherlands

A forum for the discussion of antibiotics as a potential therapy for MS

Postby SarahLonglands » Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:11 pm

I really have had enough of these silly MP arguments so all I will say is that my microbiologist husband would never dream of giving such low doses of antibiotics, having dome simple in vitro experiments to see how quickly pathogens can become resistant to antibiotics by doing that. This is the real world, not a computer model.

You are both obviously free to do as you wish and I wish you both the best.

I am happy because I am still alive, which my neurologist didn't thnk I would be.

Sarah
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Postby furch » Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:09 pm

silly MP-arguments?!
I must have gotten to you - since you seem to have nothing to say to my post besides calling it a silly "mp-argument".

seriously, you said Marshall has scared all patients into saying they are getting better! you don't think you have crossed the line??

"He rules the MP site with a rod of iron and throws off anyone who claims not to be getting better, therefore he appears to have a very good success rate."


you really don't see the absurdity here?
Please try to understand why this is a very unreasonable claim.
http://bacteriality.com/category/interview-patient/

the MP is no longer "just based on a computer-model" when people actually get well from it -

what makes you smear the MP when you dont know what its about? I mean, we're not talking about which movies we like the most

low-dose abx induce resistance?? You didn't read my previous post did you? Im on the MP, therefore i must have been scared into posting "silly mp-arguments" by marshall?

I demand you take that back sarah - cause its a silly argument period :x

note that im not at all saying the CPN doesn't work, im sure it does for some, just like the MP - fact is - they are both experimental so its not in anyones interest to relentlessly smear a treatment you don't understand
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Postby MacKintosh » Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:19 pm

Sarah, Please don't take it back. On the cpn help site, we have several posters who formerly followed the MP. One was a website moderator.

The story is pretty universal among them. At first, they thought they were getting better. Then, when they realized they were declining, they were banned from posting that information on the MP site. The former moderator was flat-out banned from the site, period.

Those who kept in touch (from the MP site), have learned of numerous patients who've declined, developed rare cancers or have died. The MP contingent suppresses this information, wanting only to publicize 'success'.

Subclinical doses of antibiotics are dangerous. Lack of vitamin D3 is increasingly shown to contribute to cancers, in addition to other disease presentation. Everyone is certainly free to do what they choose, but why anyone would choose to follow the MP is beyond my comprehension.
The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi
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Postby MacKintosh » Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:41 pm

And, Furch, no one is 'on the CPN'. Cpn is a bacteria, full name chlamydia pneumoniae. The protocol we follow is called a CAP, Combined Antibiotic Protocol.

I wish you well on whatever protocol you choose. Please, however, don't denigrate Dr. David Wheldon. And your comment to Sarah that she shouldn't make such claims 'just because her husband is an M.D' is rather snarky. Dr. Wheldon is a microbiologist and his practice is focused on multiple sclerosis. He collaborates with the foremost cpn research doctors. That's a rather large difference from 'just' having an M.D.

I think I'll take this topic off my 'watch' list. Snackhand was asking for guidance, made a decision and the issue is off the table.
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Postby furch » Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:55 pm

As Carly Simon would say, 'This song ain't about you.'
or you're opinions

mac- you seem pretty sure about all this, you haven't for a second considered the fact that it may be a bit more complex than what you have heard from former MP-patients who didnt succeed on the treatment?

rare cancers? numerous patients? I kind of doubt that - that some of the 7000 patients would get cancer, and some die, geez thats strange? people die, and peole get cancer - This doesnt mean the MP gave them cancer or killed them.

what about the ones that do get well? their just scared into claiming so? Mac, tell me you dont seriously belive that, am I speaking to a brick-wall here?

you're post mac, tells me that you are, like sarah, determined to smear the MP at any cost. You do this my taking a small portion, of a limited amount of knowledge, from a limited number of people, and a limited understanding of the MP-basis.

thats super, I guess we'll see what the future brings :wink:

and gee, im so sorry if I denigrated wheldon, i didn't intend to sink to the level of you're denigration of trevor marshall and crew, my doc, a horde of mp-patients and their docs..
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Postby MacKintosh » Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:18 pm

Well, I'd argue this 'song' is as much about me as it is about you. As I said, Snackhand asked for advice on this very public forum.

As I've done the Wheldon antibiotic protocol for three and a half years, with dramatic success, I'd say I've earned some qualification to speak here.

Don't label me and don't put words into my mouth unless I have used them. Take your 'scared into it' argument up with someone else, as I have never said that. And you are not talking to a brick wall here; you are talking to someone who did extensive research into her own disease and potential treatment prior to embarking on it. Someone who continues to read, learn, research and question.

I have, however, found a safe, cheap, remarkably effective protocol that has resulted in near-total recovery and I'm not about to switch it out for a protocol without vitamin D3. So, I think I'm done here.
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Postby furch » Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:47 pm

I have, however, found a safe, cheap, remarkably effective protocol that has resulted in near-total recovery and I'm not about to switch it out for a protocol without vitamin D3. So, I think I'm done here.


Then we are on the same page - I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, but you are smearing the MP with opinion and false accusations as if you had the "answer" - which is what I feel the "song" shouldn't be about.

"As I've done the Wheldon antibiotic protocol for three and a half years, with dramatic success, I'd say I've earned some qualification to speak here. "


Sure - but with this qualification and position you have here as an opinion-leader comes a responsibility to be open to the fact that not everyone will necessarily get as well as you do on you're protocol- at this stage in time.

And it doesn't give you any reason to smear the MP like you do - that's my point - How would you like it if I started posting everywhere that all CAP-patients where mislead by you, and that flagyl was deadly and high-dose abx was cancer-causing? there's something very wrong with such claims if you're only purpose is to smear the view you don't hold for yourself

let me make it clear that I respect you're choice of treatment, and I have no doubt that the CAP worked for you and others - but I expect the same respect for my choice of treatment
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Postby SarahLonglands » Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:04 am

Good morning Mack! I hope you are well after the weekend. A very pleasant spring day here, the sun is shining brightly and it isn't raining for once. My new Dutch bicycle should be arriving from the Netherlands any day now and I intend to go out on it, rain or shine because I miss cycling so much and now I find I can do it again.

Sarah
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Postby MacKintosh » Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:25 am

Sarah, I actually gave my bike away when my balance started to go haywire in summer of 2005! Now, I suppose I should start shopping for a new one.

I've also grudgingly begun running again, which I thought (back then) wasn't going to be possible anymore. (I hate it, but I feel really good when I exercise, so I have to get back on a regimen.)
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