RE; MEDDAYS'S PHASE3 TRIAL AND BELIEF IN BIOTIN'S POTENTIAL

Biotin is an emerging therapy for the treatment of secondary progressive MS.

RE; MEDDAYS'S PHASE3 TRIAL AND BELIEF IN BIOTIN'S POTENTIAL

Postby seeva » Wed May 10, 2017 6:47 am

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Re: RE; MEDDAYS'S PHASE3 TRAIL AND BELIEF IN BIOTINS POTENTI

Postby zen2010 » Sat May 13, 2017 2:04 am

Hi,

I have to say I don't understand the aim of this additional study.

They said they wanted more data, but thousands of MSers (including me) regularly provide data to their neurologist.
Also, previous study phases were already conducted.

It's well known this med can help some of us.
Why more studies? Why loosing time?
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Re: RE; MEDDAYS'S PHASE3 TRAIL AND BELIEF IN BIOTINS POTENTI

Postby Anunymouse » Thu May 18, 2017 10:49 am

Biotin is cheap and you can order it. Insurance won't cover it anyway, but $100 worth of the pure stuff will last you over a year at the 300mg dosage.
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Re: RE; MEDDAYS'S PHASE3 TRAIL AND BELIEF IN BIOTINS POTENTI

Postby zen2010 » Thu May 25, 2017 9:54 am

Anunymouse wrote:Biotin is cheap and you can order it. Insurance won't cover it anyway, but $100 worth of the pure stuff will last you over a year at the 300mg dosage.


Hello,

Sorry but I disagree.

There was a debate about the different biotin sources: biotin-qizenday-cerenday-md1003-f56/topic27133.html

I personally believe Qizenday is more efficient than the "cheap" biotin you can find from the net or advertised by some fools on this thread (people trying to take advantage of our disease).

By the way, one cap from Qizenday (100mg) costs around 70 USD. (This is the selling price from Medday)
As you need to take 3 caps a day, pls do the maths.


Seems the reason of this additional study is that they want to see the Qizenday effects on "non active" PP/SP MS.
Indeed, according to previous studies, results are better for this type of MS.

Meanwhile, MSers who can not get access to Qizenday have to wait more time :-x
Last edited by zen2010 on Fri May 26, 2017 3:47 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: RE; MEDDAYS'S PHASE3 TRAIL AND BELIEF IN BIOTINS POTENTI

Postby ElliotB » Thu May 25, 2017 9:57 am

"Seems the reason of this additional study is that they want to see the Qizenday effects on "non active" SPMS."

I don't think that is necessarily the reason.
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Re: RE; MEDDAYS'S PHASE3 TRAIL AND BELIEF IN BIOTINS POTENTI

Postby zen2010 » Thu May 25, 2017 10:02 am

ElliotB wrote:"Seems the reason of this additional study is that they want to see the Qizenday effects on "non active" SPMS."

I don't think that is necessarily the reason.


Hi Elliot,
From Seeva's link: "The trial aims to prove that high-dose biotin can reverse disability in non-active progressive MS........We don’t want to be polluted by relapses, which may cause unwanted noise in the evaluation."

I modified my previous post: I replaced SPMS by PP/SP MS
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Re: RE; MEDDAYS'S PHASE3 TRAIL AND BELIEF IN BIOTINS POTENTI

Postby Anunymouse » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:52 pm

zen2010 wrote:
Anunymouse wrote:Biotin is cheap and you can order it. Insurance won't cover it anyway, but $100 worth of the pure stuff will last you over a year at the 300mg dosage.


Hello,

Sorry but I disagree.

There was a debate about the different biotin sources: biotin-qizenday-cerenday-md1003-f56/topic27133.html

I personally believe Qizenday is more efficient than the "cheap" biotin you can find from the net or advertised by some fools on this thread (people trying to take advantage of our disease).

By the way, one cap from Qizenday (100mg) costs around 70 USD. (This is the selling price from Medday)
As you need to take 3 caps a day, pls do the maths.


Seems the reason of this additional study is that they want to see the Qizenday effects on "non active" PP/SP MS.
Indeed, according to previous studies, results are better for this type of MS.

Meanwhile, MSers who can not get access to Qizenday have to wait more time :-x



You can't judge anything by price. Popular ms drugs cost almost $.17 to the manufacturer and they sell for 60k-100k. Lemtrada is a great example of this. The medicine used, at the dose it's used when compared to the pre-existing usage and dose should cost in the neighborhood of hundreds of dollars. But it sure got expensive fast. It falls onto my (least) favorite adage, You get what you pay for. If I sell you garbage at 10x quality price, you're still getting garbage.

Debate is just that, debate. We can debate bigfoot all day every day, doesn't make it more real. We can debate what color undies he likes as well, no different :)

IIRC medday wasn't advertising or TM'ing a new biotin, just a unique dose for a unique problem. Until something comes out showing they are using anything besides the same product as available elsewhere I'm going to be pretty skeptical that it is anything new. And pure is pure. You can't get more watery than water, once you reach the nothing but water stage, that's it. As is they have failed studies and the easy cure promise are fading. And they are now narrowing the overall goals to find a niche. If it was politics it would be red-lining. I'm not sure what they call it in the medication field.

From a profit standpoint every manufacturer wants naming/prescribing rights to something that is dirt cheap but has a massive profit margin. Assuming (I know, it's an assumption) they can take something that is cheap, create an arbitrary dose (and 300mg is a completely arbitrary dose as are most meds) but advertise that as being THE dose to take of their repackaged product, you will end up with happy investors at $205 profit per customer per day ad infinitum, as long as there is SOME market to sell to.

FWIW the neuro that gave me biotin info, almost a year after I came across it myself, says the Medday stuff is no different than off the shelf, besides the dosage. Maybe he's also making assumptions, I don't know. I know I personally wouldn't pound 30'ish extra pills every day using the off the shelf product. I don't want to sound like a maraca if I fall down the stairs!
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Re: RE; MEDDAYS'S PHASE3 TRAIL AND BELIEF IN BIOTINS POTENTI

Postby NHE » Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:17 am

Anunymouse wrote:From a profit standpoint every manufacturer wants naming/prescribing rights to something that is dirt cheap but has a massive profit margin. Assuming (I know, it's an assumption) they can take something that is cheap, create an arbitrary dose (and 300mg is a completely arbitrary dose as are most meds) but advertise that as being THE dose to take of their repackaged product, you will end up with happy investors at $205 profit per customer per day ad infinitum, as long as there is SOME market to sell to.

The same is true for dimethylfumarate. Chinese manufacturers used to use it as an antifungal agent on leather products such as shoes and couches.

tecfidera-bg-12-dimethyl-fumarate-f52/topic22221-165.html#p230185
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Re: Medday's PHASE3 TRAIL AND BELIEF IN BIOTINS POTENTI

Postby Marc70 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:00 pm

Anunymouse wrote:You can't judge anything by price... It falls onto my (least) favorite adage, You get what you pay for. If I sell you garbage at 10x quality price, you're still getting garbage.

IIRC medday wasn't advertising or TM'ing a new biotin, just a unique dose for a unique problem. Until something comes out showing they are using anything besides the same product as available elsewhere I'm going to be pretty skeptical that it is anything new. And pure is pure. You can't get more watery than water, once you reach the nothing but water stage, that's it. As is they have failed studies and the easy cure promise are fading. And they are now narrowing the overall goals to find a niche. If it was politics it would be red-lining. I'm not sure what they call it in the medication field.

From a profit standpoint every manufacturer wants naming/prescribing rights to something that is dirt cheap but has a massive profit margin. Assuming (I know, it's an assumption) they can take something that is cheap, create an arbitrary dose (and 300mg is a completely arbitrary dose as are most meds) but advertise that as being THE dose to take of their repackaged product, you will end up with happy investors at $205 profit per customer per day ad infinitum, as long as there is SOME market to sell to.

FWIW the neuro that gave me biotin info, almost a year after I came across it myself, says the Medday stuff is no different than off the shelf, besides the dosage. Maybe he's also making assumptions, I don't know. I know I personally wouldn't pound 30'ish extra pills every day using the off the shelf product. I don't want to sound like a maraca if I fall down the stairs!


A real expert writing here. If you checked a bit, you'd realize that B7/Biotin can come in any quality that you're looking for. 99% of the market is for the cheap Chinese produced stuff that vetenarians use to feed horses or for the capsules sold at pharmacies to improve hair and nails...

You only have one B7 stereoisomer that is actually biologically active ..and then you need it in the right purity. Medday acutally has their own plant in the Netherlands where they source and produce on dedicated production lines to ensure that they have full controll of their Supply Chain. So the Medday stuff is different. And if you checked their package, you'd also notice that their Quiznday pills include other ingredients like a lactose catalyst. The 3x100mg dosage wasn't arbitrary either. There were things like phase I studies going on before this hype started.

Anyways, think what you want. People have meanwhile been taking Biotin for years and are happy with the results.
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