Horse chestnut

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Horse chestnut

Postby lumpc1 » Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:05 pm

Do not know if anyone is interested, but I started horse chestnut Dec. 1, in form of venastat: 600mg time realize. started felling foot sensations real quick. Then found Diosmin 95, and added that Feb. 1. It is back and forth, which makes perfect sense to me. I am 25 years in and feet have felt numb since 1996. Today they feel light. I think this may work but will take time. Someone not as far in as I may find this will work quickly for them. If you can travel to Poland, NY. Stanford, I think I would try this. I did read someone said it got worse, I also thought that, but if our brain has had iron poisoning for several years backing out of the precess may be something of a LDN type thing: revisit of old symptoms. Just my thoughts. I have been in touch with the local vascular center and they are interested in CCSVI, had a regular ultrasound that showed nothing, they can not move on the findings. Have e-mailed them and the imaging center all I can find about protocols but it is rather hard to keep it all sorted out. I think everyone is interested but......
This is one of the best in the country and I was surprised when I called to inquire back in Dec. The heart surgeon was on the phone with me in about 5 min. So I have double hope in two directions. As soon as the protocol is set they will be on board, I have no(well little doubt). This is a poduck town, so I am saying any vascular worth thier wieght is aware.
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Postby kc » Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:44 pm

Lump,

I am also taking horsechestnut with butcher's broom. It is called veinsense . I started it about 2 months ago. I have improved since then but think it is a combo of ibt and this new supplement.

It makes sense to take it. Pardon the pun on the name of the supplement.

R u using inclinced bed therapy?

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Re: Horse chestnut

Postby L » Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:25 pm

lumpc1 wrote:Do not know if anyone is interested, but I started horse chestnut Dec. 1, in form of venastat: 600mg time realize. started felling foot sensations real quick. Then found Diosmin 95, and added that Feb. 1. It is back and forth, which makes perfect sense to me. I am 25 years in and feet have felt numb since 1996. Today they feel light. I think this may work but will take time. Someone not as far in as I may find this will work quickly for them. If you can travel to Poland, NY. Stanford, I think I would try this. I did read someone said it got worse, I also thought that, but if our brain has had iron poisoning for several years backing out of the precess may be something of a LDN type thing: revisit of old symptoms. Just my thoughts. I have been in touch with the local vascular center and they are interested in CCSVI, had a regular ultrasound that showed nothing, they can not move on the findings. Have e-mailed them and the imaging center all I can find about protocols but it is rather hard to keep it all sorted out. I think everyone is interested but......
This is one of the best in the country and I was surprised when I called to inquire back in Dec. The heart surgeon was on the phone with me in about 5 min. So I have double hope in two directions. As soon as the protocol is set they will be on board, I have no(well little doubt). This is a poduck town, so I am saying any vascular worth thier wieght is aware.


Very interested, thanks.

And thanks kc for butcher's broom.

I had never heard of these supplements. I ordered both from ebay sellers just now..
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Re: Horse chestnut

Postby NHE » Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:48 pm

I think that Gibbledygook may have experimented with these and other herbs. You might try searching out her posts.

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Postby danegirl » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:25 am

Please, can someone tell me what "butchers broom" is? It is sometimes very hard for non-americans to understand things mentioned here. Thank you.
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Postby L » Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 am

danegirl wrote:Please, can someone tell me what "butchers broom" is? It is sometimes very hard for non-americans to understand things mentioned here. Thank you.


It's the name of a herb.

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Quite a few supplements combine it with horse chestnut seed, although the amounts contained aren't so big as each of them on their own in a pill.
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Postby lumpc1 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:12 pm

kc wrote:Lump,


R u using inclinced bed therapy?

kc

KC I cannot get it done but I have been sleeping on back with head elevated with two pillows
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Re: Horse chestnut

Postby lumpc1 » Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:59 am

lumpc1 wrote:Do not know if anyone is interested, but I started horse chestnut Dec. 1, in form of venastat: 600mg time realize. started felling foot sensations real quick. Then found Diosmin 95, and added that Feb. 1. It is back and forth, which makes perfect sense to me. I am 25 years in and feet have felt numb since 1996. Today they feel light. I think this may work but will take time. Someone not as far in as I may find this will work quickly for them. If you can travel to Poland, NY. Stanford, I think I would try this. I did read someone said it got worse, I also thought that, but if our brain has had iron poisoning for several years backing out of the precess may be something of a LDN type thing: revisit of old symptoms. Just my thoughts. I have been in touch with the local vascular center and they are interested in CCSVI, had a regular ultrasound that showed nothing, they can not move on the findings. Have e-mailed them and the imaging center all I can find about protocols but it is rather hard to keep it all sorted out. I think everyone is interested but......
This is one of the best in the country and I was surprised when I called to inquire back in Dec. The heart surgeon was on the phone with me in about 5 min. So I have double hope in two directions. As soon as the protocol is set they will be on board, I have no(well little doubt). This is a poduck town, so I am saying any vascular worth their weight is aware.


OK so as far as I have researched here is the supplement
Horse chestnut(venastat, 12 hr. time release)
l-arginine(up to 10,000 mg) I just found this one I think it is a good one
venacura(diosmin95)
n-acetyl-cystine
grape seed extract for vein support(OPC factor)
Of course I take 5,000iu D
All of these I take, but then I am Like I said 25 years In and in desperate.
one or a couple may do it for some. I am sure these are able to open up those veins in some people and perhaps quickly. :) Cheers!
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Postby gibbledygook » Fri Apr 09, 2010 10:20 am

The latin name is: Ruscus aculeatus for butcher's broom.

I played around with heavy dosages of both the dilators like gingko biloba and salvia miltiorrhiza and the vasoconstrictors like butcher's broom and horsechestnut. I never suffered a disabling relapse on the vasodilators although in heavy dosages my walking suffered quite a bit but I did suffer a disabling relapse on moderate doses of horsechestnut. By moderate and heavy I'm talking several grams a day of the herbs so don't experiment like I did!!
3 years antibiotics, 06/09 bilateral jug stents at C1, 05/11 ballooning of both jug valves, 07/12 stenting of renal vein, azygos & jug valve ballooning,
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Postby lumpc1 » Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:21 am

I don't understand your post. like I said 600mg horse chestnut in TR. the reason for this is to minimize the efect. The l arginine is the one that opens the viens I think. :)
as far a relapse go's, I thought it dssaisd you had the liberation? I hope to hold out till I can recieve treatment, I am 25 years in and not doing well. it could be much worse. hopeful!
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Postby gibbledygook » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:26 am

I was experimenting with vasodilators (gingko/salvia) and vasoconstrictors (horsechestnut/butcher's broom) long before the stent procedure. Because I experienced such relief from the dilators I tried in ever larger quantities. I then added horsechestnut with the dilators and then tried it alone. Just be cautious with amounts and don't take several grams a day like I did!
3 years antibiotics, 06/09 bilateral jug stents at C1, 05/11 ballooning of both jug valves, 07/12 stenting of renal vein, azygos & jug valve ballooning,
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Postby yigalby » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:15 pm

i wrote few days ago in other place in the forum.
you may want to use this:

i`m reading this forum for the last week or so ,trying to open the eyes
of MS patients in israel and a neighbor of mine who have MS.
I`m working in herbal medicine and a researcher .

When i first heard about the cause of MS i was astounded.
I immediately thought about plants that work on veins.

first plant is evening primrose oil ,which many people use for MS around the world .this plant been searched a lot and known to be good for many blood related problems ,and its leaves is the best source of quercetin.

second there is a book by Rudolf Breuss ,who explain how get rid of phlebitis in the veins.He recommended a vinegar+water compress 3 times a day.i think it worth try it to the neck area.
He also say that curd-quark compress is good as well.

another plant that considerd to be one the best to vein problems
internally and externally is butcher's broom.
specipely to venous insufficiency
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16245442 ,and many more.
if i have MS i will for sure try it.

Another great herb is Gotukola or Centella asiatica which used for the same problems as butcher's broom(and many more uses).
This plant is one the must important plant in india and close countries.
and test good too Smile.

well hope it will help some one,i`m sure that plant and good food will work for it too.

in fact i did with my former boss a cream for Varicose Veins that work so well,that after 10 minutes we saw it almost gone from the legs of some patients. we used oak bark and butcher's broom if i remember correctly.

all the best everyone
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ccsvi

Postby blossom » Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:58 pm

anyone know if these things talked about can be taken with nattokinase?
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Postby cheerleader » Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:52 am

I'd like to just clarify a bit on this thread...

Many of the vein treatments discussed on here are used on the legs, for chronic venous insufficiency in the lower limbs. Having spoken with the doctors about this, the mechanism of venous insufficiency is VERY different in the legs as opposed to the neck, due to gravity.

Butchers broom, horse chestnut are vasoconstrictors, and this is important to note. They make veins tighter by affecting the endothelial lining. Vein problems in the legs are due to stretched out, hyperextended veins and faulty valves. They are not strong enough to pump blood back up, against gravity, to the heart. These supplements you're discussing are known to tighten veins, make them stronger via constriction. This is not the problem in CCSVI.

In CCSVI, there is a truncular venous malformation (a web or inverted valve or missing vein) that is creating slowed drainage with gravity. The veins don't need to be constricted any more than they are.

The endothelial health program (available at www.ccsvi.org under "helping myself") takes research on vasodilation and nitric oxide to help blood flow and oxygenation.
Hope this explanation makes sense,
cheer
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Re: Horse chestnut

Postby jwelhaus » Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:17 pm

Be careful all when randomly using herbs or other supplements to treat any disorder. Horse Chestnut (Aesculus hippocastanum) can be damaging to the liver over a prolonged period of time. Even though it is a good venous strengthening tonic, it has constrictive properties on veins. That is the opposite of what you would want if you follow the CCSVI theory that Dr. Zamboni has proposed. Gotu kola (Centella) is a better option, since it not only is a venous tonic, but it has dilating properties on the veins. It is also safer to use long-term as compared to Horse Chestnut. Best wishes on you pursuit to a cure to this disorder. Keep the faith!
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