Primary Progressive and accidents

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.


Postby aliyalex » Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:27 pm

speaking of emotional trauma, right before my first MS symptom which was loss of circulation in my hands while supine, i had a huge traumatic meltdown with former husband.

guess what he said to me when we had separated?! "you better get a good attorney, b/c i'm going to go for your jugular."

sorry, off topic.
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whiplash prior to MS DX

Postby ThisIsMA » Fri Mar 19, 2010 5:40 pm

Many years prior to my MS diagnosis I suffered from whiplash as a result of riding in a car that was rear ended at fairly high speed.

More recently, but still prior to diagnosis, a sheet of plywood that I was lifting overhead slipped and landed on my head. Not good.

I now have RRMS.

Very curious about any possible link to CCSVI, but also very aware it (trauma prior to MS DX) could simply be a coincidence.
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Postby LR1234 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:54 am

Yes, My GP told me about one of his MS patients who had a very very bad accident of something heavy falling on his head at work. two Montha later he was diagnosed with MS and was totally healthy before.

Unfortunatly the accident was very very bad and he developed the most severe type of MS and died 6 months later. What autoimmune disease could do that????? I think it was def damage to his neck/head. He never went into remission. He was 100% diagnosed with MS!!
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Postby kiwi » Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:22 pm

Had ultrasound yesterday and both right and left IJV have narrowings. Not sure how much yet, have to wait for the report to be sent to us, however we were told that there are definitely abnormalities in both veins. We were so happy to be told that they was abnormal - seems so wrong to be pleased, but this is the beginning of something ...
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Postby tlynn » Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:22 am

I had all kinds of wrecks with horses when I was a kid and was rear ended in a car when I was about 30. I was diagnosed with myelitis however when I was 29. I am now 51 and have SPMS. I'm sure the car thing did'nt help.
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trauma at night?

Postby 1eye » Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:03 am

I guess this may not have happened to most. (I have seen things in this forum about numb arms, which I used to have after sleeping on my side, but don't seem to anymore. Thought not getting them was because of lost weight.)

I trace my first long-lasting MS symptom, to before DX, in the morning after a hard night sleeping on corners of wood trying to support myself with my neck (both sides, to rest the other). Probably, come to think, right where my stenoses are, on both jugulars.

I have found other bad symptoms first thing in the morning. Never remember it being after a bad night though.

Heard jugulars only used at night (or when lying down0.
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Multiple Sclerosis and Physical Trauma for example whiplash

Postby ThisIsMA » Sat Jun 19, 2010 12:06 pm

I just found this web page that provides an array of studies linking MS to trauma to the spine such as whiplash. The upper half of the webpage deals with MS and stress (also very interesting). The bottom half of the page is about MS and physccal trauma.

Multiple Sclerosis and Physical Trauma:

For over a century, patients and physicians have dealt with the phenomena that suggests that trauma may proceed the onset of MS or may aggravate ongoing MS. Because of the variability of the course of MS, there is some controversy regarding the causation between physical trauma and onset or aggravation of MS. However, more recent studies have shown that trauma to the head and neck does indeed bear a relationship to the aggravation of or creation of MS.

A 2001 article in the European Journal of Neurology (A. Chaudhuri and Behan). In the conclusion of the paper it is noted:

Like infection, which will trigger MS symptoms only in a portion of a patients [10% (McAlpine et al, 1965) - 48% (Sibley and Foley, 1965)], cervical cord hyperextension - hyperflexion injury is likely to unmask or worsen the natural course of MS in a sub group of affected patients with an underlying diathesis. This may be important because of the prevalence of asymptomatic ("silent") MS has been estimated to be about 25% of that diagnosed invivo (Engell, 1989). We make it clear that we do not propose physical trauma in any form causes MS per se. Physiologically, CNS - specific trauma produces focal reaches in the BBB [brain-blood barrier] and induces metabolic changes by activating the stress response. In addition, focal trauma also enhances the expression of nitric oxide synthase in the CNS microvasculature. In susceptible individuals, these effects might unleash critical changes in the level of pro-inflammatory cytokines and nitro oxide, this triggering MS symptoms ab initio or aggravating symptoms of pre-existing latent disease.

Dr. Charles Poser of Harvard Medical School has long been a proponent of the link between trauma and MS. As he notes in his enclosed paper entitled "Trauma to the Central Nervous System May Result in Formation or Enlargement of Multiple Sclerosis Plaques," "In some patients with MS certain types of trauma may act as a trigger at sometime for the appearance of new or recurrent symptoms. Only trauma affecting the head, neck or upper back, that is, to the brain and/or spine cord can be considered significant." (Published in the Archives of Neurology, July 2000). Dr. Poser goes on to talk about the effects of whiplash on the central nervous system and outlines the existing extensive medical research that back up the correlation.

Interesting, huh? the first half of the article about studies linking MS progression to stress is also interesting.

Mary Ann
DX 6-09 RRMS, now SPMS
Still work, still walk, but not very far.
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Postby Vhoenecke » Sat Jun 19, 2010 12:54 pm

This totally makes sense, some of us are genetically connected to having bad veins and some of us have had spinal injuries that cause pressure on our veins from the spine.

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Postby Trish317 » Sat Jun 19, 2010 1:21 pm

My darling man started having migraines in his late teens. They were so bad that they caused him to leave his appointment to the US Air Force Academy. Then, in his mid-20's, he sustained a broken neck. Over the years, he's had four neck surgeries to fuse the cervical vertebrae and one surgery to remove scar tissue. He remembers his first symptoms starting after the first surgery. His last surgery was in 2005. His right forearm went numb and it's been that way ever since. He was diagnosed with Primary Progressive MS in 2007. Prior to the MS diagnosis, the doctors thought he might have ALS.

He's also had four grand mal seizures over the years. He's still able to walk with a cane but his feet are completely numb, he has serious vertigo, cognitive difficulties, and various other symptoms.

I'm convinced that it's all related. In fact, I've wondered if the PPMS diagnosis is even right.
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Postby vivavie » Sat Jun 19, 2010 1:57 pm

I had my first episode less than a year after tongue cancer; radiotherapie, curietherapie and cervical ganglionaire evidement. I was sure it caused CCSVI. Most of it was on the right side of my neck. I had Liberation treatment and the problem was the valve on the left jug!?!? But then I am still not doing so great...
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Another Car accident

Postby eveable » Sat Jun 19, 2010 4:35 pm

I was in a car accident at the age of 16. I was dazed but not injured. In my late 30's I had trouble turning my head and saw a chiropracter. I have whiplash injury at C2. I still see the chiropracter. At 50, I was diagnosed with MS. The spinal lesion is between C1 and C2.
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Re: Primary Progressive and accidents

Postby Rogan » Thu May 30, 2013 8:59 pm

Just want to mention on this thread doctors from Renton, Seattle Washington State who are bringing back Dr. Charles Poser of Harvard Medical School ideas who had been looking into this connection for more than 20 years.

The Uprightdoc on this board, Dr. Michael Flanagan D.C. has been trying to transmit this wisdom to us for many years. I think he is a genius.

Thank you Researchers and Doctors and Pharma, and Heathcare employee's for caring about sick people.
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Re: Primary Progressive and accidents

Postby 1eye » Sat Jun 01, 2013 11:59 am

Just to add another anecdote, my first knowledge of "MS" came when a family friend was hospitalized with PPMS when I was about 11. He had just had an accident with a fall from a ladder. He died when he was 30. From my visits with him in hospital I came to think of "MS" as the disease which sucked the wind out of him, as he had trouble breathing and speaking. He had once been a good singer.
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Re: Primary Progressive and accidents

Postby Donnchadh » Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:47 am

I will have some reports to list later which I think will prove very interesting to fellow progressive's who have had trauma.

The treating doctor wishes to remain unnamed until after my treatment is complete. It involves something I have never seen before in MS reports.

There is hope!

Kitty says, "Take that, you stenosis!"

Got MS?.....Get Liberated!
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Re: Primary Progressive and accidents

Postby Cece » Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:54 pm

Good luck with your treatment, Donnchadh, and come back and share more when you can. :)

Is there a reason this thread is about primary progressive and accidents? Is there any reason to think that PPMS is more associated with accidents than other types of MS? I couldn't find much in the research to support a link between MS and trauma but the anecdotes can be compelling. Maybe accidents will bring on MS that would otherwise have remained subclinical for awhile longer?
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