DrSclafani answers some questions

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drsclafani
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Post by drsclafani »

pklittle wrote:
truly occluded veins are a really challenging entity. Hard clot, limited accessibility, strong resistance to catheterization, loss of intimal integrity, poor outflow and poor inflow, uncorrected or unrecognized causes of thrombosis, hypercoagulability are some of the things that must be overcome.


i digress....just having a momentary nightmare.....i will survive
Dr. Sclafani,
If a year has gone by since a vein has occluded, is it guaranteed that it is a hard clot? Does amount of time passed dictate the degree of density of the clot?
thanks
Pam
pam,
clot may proceed to fibrosis and stricture of the vein. or it may recanalize leaving a short channel of thrombus that is hard. How long the stenosis measures depends upon the anatomy of the collaterals. Clot propogates up and down the vessel until it comes to a point where flow maintains its patency. That is generally at vessel branch points that allow flow to continue. Remind me after the symposium and i will show you a case where thrombus is persistent only for a short distance where there was no flow. This made it easier to traverse the clotted segment and to recanalize the vessel.
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Post by drsclafani »

pklittle wrote:Dr. Sclafani,
Do you think Montel having the procedure and Dr. Oz tracking him for a special broadcast in the fall is going to open the floodgates in support of CCSVI research funding and treatments? Are you encouraged?
thanks again,
Pam
I think patients will be more willing to undergo the treatment because of Montel.

i think the patients showing their physicians any improvements AND the results of trials will move the physicians and insurers to be more supportive.

I am encouraged. It has been a very difficult time getting traction.
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Post by drsclafani »

jgalt2009 wrote:
drsclafani wrote:Lumbar hypoplasia seems very common among MSers of all types.
Dr. Sclafani,

Dr. Zamboni's original study documented 18 hypoplastic vein occurrences. He stated that 5 of 6 hypoplastic azygous veins were treated and "favorably responded". The study makes no mention of the other 12 hypoplasias.
hypoplasia is a relative term. If hypoplasia results in a 1-2 mm vein, it is very difficult to treat this. The catheter is bigger than the diameter of the hypoplastic vein. If the hypoplasia is a four millimeter vein , then it would be possible to treat it.

my own experience is dismal and i have abandoned for the time being heroic attempts to get the very small vein open. thrombosis is more common among these veins.

i have given the discussion of maturation of hypoplastic veins to Dr Sullivan at the symposium. it will be interesting to see whether he has a different sense of this .
1. Are you aware of any details regarding the other 12 hypoplastic vein occurrences (3 distal azy's, 1 lumbar, 4 IJV-l, 4 IJV-r) in Dr. Zamboni's study, and if they were treatable?
I do not.
2. I know that hypoplasia is defined as an underdevelopment of a vessel or organ, and I am fairly sure that there are multiple ways that it can manifest itself;
a) can you tell me which manifestations are treatable, versus non-treatable?
A vein that is small and underdeveloped in a segment, rather than the entire vein, measuring about 4 mm is worthy of attempted dilatation.
b) specifically, what were the manifestations of the hypoplastic lumbar veins that you have encountered, and were you able to treat them?
c) if treatable, what was their patency?
Lumber veins are not really treatable. they are small veins very deep within the spine. they are tortuous. there are eight lumbar veins and i would estimate that at least half and sometimes many more of them are narrowed .i dont think it is feasible to treat these.
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Post by Algis »

i dont think it is feasible to treat these
Therefore if they are mostly blocked and the flow greatly reduced; we're basically screwed when we are not lying down :o
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Post by drsclafani »

Algis wrote:
i dont think it is feasible to treat these
Therefore if they are mostly blocked and the flow greatly reduced; we're basically screwed when we are not lying down :o
algis

little is written about these veins. However the flow is small. the major problems occur related to tht high flow coming from the brain into the spine. These lumbar veins may be a marker more than a liability

of course, that is only my speculation of which there is lots floating around
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Post by CCSVIhusband »

drsclafani wrote:
Cece wrote:
drsclafani wrote:When something is clearly phasic, i wonder when it is justified to treat.
Have you ever come across a CCSVI narrowing that you determined to be phasic yet considered it to be justified to treat?

I remember a patient of yours with an odd azygous, with a phasic narrowing.
Here it is:
www.thisisms.com/ftopicp-148962.html#148962

Would you treat this differently now than you did then?
Cece, i dont recall doing so. It was during my first conversation with dr zamboni such a long time ago that he warned me about phasic narrowings. it led me to use IVUS from my very first procedure

i dont know whether he and, by extension, I are correct but something that is phasic seems to be physiological and unworthy of treatment.
I still wonder about this ... just from a results standpoint.

That phasic narrowing - or at least the azygous in question in this post - was treated once, with SIGNIFICANT (can't capitalize that enough) results that held briefly.

A second time mentioned here it was viewed, but it was not treated. No noteworthy results ...

I just wonder ... I don't know (at all). I just wonder.
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Post by jgalt2009 »

Dr. Sclafani,

I have a few questions, but before getting to them, I want to express, not just my appreciation for you, but WHY I appreciate you so much.

In any normal environment, I only get to speak with my doctor when I have an appointment. If I am properly prepared, I can usually get my most pertinent questions answered. However, follow-up questions, "what-if" questions, distractions, impatience by the doctor, my knowledge that he has 20 people to see after me... all of this leads to me feeling frustrated after the visit.

By making yourself available in this forum to answer our questions, you have taken time out of your very busy life and donated it to a large number of people that you have never met (and in most cases, never will). I find this act to be generous and lovely. With deepest appreciation, I salute you.

And I'll try not to waste any of your time with stupid questions. Hopefully these are worthy:

1. When you encounter a resistant stenosis, what demographic factors do you consider in your treatment plan? Specifically, do you treat differently based on patient age, race or gender (e.g. do you test African-american patients for a proclivity to hypertrohic scarring; are 50 y.o. IJV's more prone to distress than 25 y.o.; etc.)?

2. When you (hopefully rarely) encounter injury resulting from vascular ballooning:
a. is the correct term for the injury intimal hyperplasia, thrombosis, or something else?
b. do you know if the injury is from stretching of the endothelia along the expanding circumference of the lumen, or from compression of the endothelia between the balloon and the Tunica media?

3. IF the limiting factor on achieving a patent IJV (that has a resistant stenosis) is stretching of the intima (and not compression), would it be possible to encase the exterior of the IJV with a sleeve to allow much higher pressures during the ballooning process (I've read about vascular sleeves for aneurysm mitigation)?
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Post by drsclafani »

Rather than the testimonial method of patient participation at the NYC CCSVI Symposium Patient Day, I have chosen a round table discussion of the procedure with all panelists being patients and me being moderator.

If there are any questions outthere that readers would like to propose to the panelists, please state them here ...

thanks

sal sclafani, an equal opportunity doctor :lol:
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Post by drsclafani »

CCSVIhusband wrote:
drsclafani wrote:
Cece wrote: Have you ever come across a CCSVI narrowing that you determined to be phasic yet considered it to be justified to treat?

I remember a patient of yours with an odd azygous, with a phasic narrowing.
Here it is:
www.thisisms.com/ftopicp-148962.html#148962

Would you treat this differently now than you did then?
Cece, i dont recall doing so. It was during my first conversation with dr zamboni such a long time ago that he warned me about phasic narrowings. it led me to use IVUS from my very first procedure

i dont know whether he and, by extension, I are correct but something that is phasic seems to be physiological and unworthy of treatment.
I still wonder about this ... just from a results standpoint.

That phasic narrowing - or at least the azygous in question in this post - was treated once, with SIGNIFICANT (can't capitalize that enough) results that held briefly.

A second time mentioned here it was viewed, but it was not treated. No noteworthy results ...

I just wonder ... I don't know (at all). I just wonder.
ccsvi h: if i recall, the azygous was not the only vessel treated. Is it not possible that the transient positive effect was related to treatment of jugular vein problems and that the azygous vein did not have any effect?

could the azygous angioplasty be a confounding variable?
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Post by drsclafani »

jgalt2009 wrote:Dr. Sclafani,

I have a few questions, but before getting to them, I want to express, not just my appreciation for you, but WHY I appreciate you so much.

In any normal environment, I only get to speak with my doctor when I have an appointment. If I am properly prepared, I can usually get my most pertinent questions answered. However, follow-up questions, "what-if" questions, distractions, impatience by the doctor, my knowledge that he has 20 people to see after me... all of this leads to me feeling frustrated after the visit.

By making yourself available in this forum to answer our questions, you have taken time out of your very busy life and donated it to a large number of people that you have never met (and in most cases, never will). I find this act to be generous and lovely. With deepest appreciation, I salute you.
i appreciate the sentiments.
And I'll try not to waste any of your time with stupid questions. Hopefully these are worthy:
the only unworthy question is one that is not voiced
1. When you encounter a resistant stenosis, what demographic factors do you consider in your treatment plan? Specifically, do you treat differently based on patient age, race or gender (e.g. do you test African-american patients for a proclivity to hypertrohic scarring; are 50 y.o. IJV's more prone to distress than 25 y.o.; etc.)?
when i encounter a resistant stenosis i wonder how much pressure i will apply to the balloon. I stress about exceeding the pressure limits of the balloon and worry about balloon rupture. Pressures as high as necessary often exceed the pressure transmitted by a high power rifle. So ultimately we come down to failure to break the stenosis and then anguish about how to address both the persistent stenotic lesion and the injury of the vessel, or worse, the damage caused by balloon rupture.

I dont think too much about keloid formation. I have only treated two african americans, who seem to abhor this disease as much as I do.

At this stage i havent really found any proclivities toward resistant stenoses. Not age, sex, degree of stenosis, race, location type of MS...nothing.
2. When you (hopefully rarely) encounter injury resulting from vascular ballooning:
a. is the correct term for the injury intimal hyperplasia, thrombosis, or something else?
the correct term for injury is "injury". Injuries include intimal crush, intimal tears, mural ruptures which can all lead to hematoma and thrombosis, mural dissections where the intimal and part of the media pulls away from the rest of the wall and may cause compromise to flow, are a few of the things that can occur
b. do you know if the injury is from stretching of the endothelia along the expanding circumference of the lumen, or from compression of the endothelia between the balloon and the Tunica media?
most injuries are caused by stretching the wall of the vessel, rather than crush of the intimal.
3. IF the limiting factor on achieving a patent IJV (that has a resistant stenosis) is stretching of the intima (and not compression), would it be possible to encase the exterior of the IJV with a sleeve to allow much higher pressures during the ballooning process (I've read about vascular sleeves for aneurysm mitigation)?
if you are going to do that, you might as well resect the problem and see what happens. I think that we need to patent the tissue that can exceed 30 atmospheres of pressure. would put kevlar out of business.
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Post by drsclafani »

drsclafani wrote:Rather than the testimonial method of patient participation at the NYC CCSVI Symposium Patient Day, I have chosen a round table discussion of the procedure with all panelists being patients and me being moderator.

If there are any questions outthere that readers would like to propose to the panelists, please state them here ...

thanks

sal sclafani, an equal opportunity doctor :lol:
this is ironic DrSclafani answers some questions asks for some questions and no one is there.
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Post by Johnson »

!,,,
Last edited by Johnson on Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My name is not really Johnson. MSed up since 1993
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Post by jgalt2009 »

drsclafani wrote:this is ironic DrSclafani answers some questions asks for some questions and no one is there.
Dr. Sclafani,

I assumed your target audience were those that would be present at the symposium. I have many questions for them, but unfortunately, I will not be able to attend.

I would like to know:

1. show of hands that had immediate, tangible improvements after the procedure, and the specifics of those improvements (e.g. reduced fatigue, less spasticity, cognitive improvement, etc. Also, for each respondent, type of MS and years since diagnosis. What is your confidence that the tangible improvement was NOT placebo?

2. show of hands that suffered post-op pain (only enduring beyond the clinic post-op observation period), and the specifics of that pain, duration, and mitigation.

3. For each patient, how many stenoses were treated, post-op patency of the treatments, 6 month, 12 month and 18 month patency.

4. Identification of the doctor that performed the procedure, and which docs used stents, and why.

5. How many have had restenosis. How many have had those restenoses treated again. Patency of the retreatment.

6. Discussion amongst patients on post-op blood medications, pro's and con's of anti-coagulants versus anti-platelets.

There's my starter list of questions. I wish I could be there!
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Post by CCSVIhusband »

drsclafani wrote:
CCSVIhusband wrote:Redacted ---- until

I still wonder about this ... just from a results standpoint.

That phasic narrowing - or at least the azygous in question in this post - was treated once, with SIGNIFICANT (can't capitalize that enough) results that held briefly.

A second time mentioned here it was viewed, but it was not treated. No noteworthy results ...

I just wonder ... I don't know (at all). I just wonder.
ccsvi h: if i recall, the azygous was not the only vessel treated. Is it not possible that the transient positive effect was related to treatment of jugular vein problems and that the azygous vein did not have any effect?

could the azygous angioplasty be a confounding variable?
Well, that's only sort of true.

In the initial treatment, it was only the azygous and the iliac (MT) treated.

During your procedure it was only the jugulars treated. - no azygous and no iliac.

So, there is some potential for confounding variables ... but not due to the jugular veins being treated at the same time as the azygous ever.
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Post by drsclafani »

CCSVIhusband wrote:
drsclafani wrote:
CCSVIhusband wrote:Redacted ---- until

I still wonder about this ... just from a results standpoint.

That phasic narrowing - or at least the azygous in question in this post - was treated once, with SIGNIFICANT (can't capitalize that enough) results that held briefly.

A second time mentioned here it was viewed, but it was not treated. No noteworthy results ...

I just wonder ... I don't know (at all). I just wonder.
ccsvi h: if i recall, the azygous was not the only vessel treated. Is it not possible that the transient positive effect was related to treatment of jugular vein problems and that the azygous vein did not have any effect?

could the azygous angioplasty be a confounding variable?
Well, that's only sort of true.

In the initial treatment, it was only the azygous and the iliac (MT) treated.

During your procedure it was only the jugulars treated. - no azygous and no iliac.

So, there is some potential for confounding variables ... but not due to the jugular veins being treated at the same time as the azygous ever.
perhaps you are right. only way to tell would be to see the outcome of stenting an inconstant azygous stenosis AFTER everything that was more obvious was treated at a prior treatment to see if it really made a difference.
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