Hold your breath!

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Hold your breath!

Postby eve » Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:11 am

Okay, so this is something weird I found out.

When I hold my breath immediately my right jugular swells up to large size at the base of my neck, right above my ribcage. My left jugular remains normal (= not/hardly visible)

I had my son, my partner and some others try it out too and all their jugulars remained normal size or both swelled lightly after prolonged holding.

So I posted this on the Dutch CCSVI forum and we had a little fun with it -and at least 4 other persons reported back having the same - all a direct and very clear swelling of the right jugular, while their 'controls'(anyone in their family etc) had none or only slightly after prolonged time at both sides.

One of our libertees tried it out too, she had light swelling in both after prolonged holding.

So I did some googling and I found this:


What causes your jugular veins to distend when you hold your breath?

I know the jugular veins bring blood flow FROM the brain and the carotid arteries take the blood flow TO the brain, so why do your jugular veins distend when you hold your breath or play a wind instrument? is it just the pressure in your head or is it blood backing up in the veins until you take a breath? I am a horn player and noticed this when I was playing my horn in front of a mirror and just got curious about why this happens.


Best Answer - Chosen by Asker
The medical term is called 'Valsalva' which is effectively performed by playing a horn.

This maneuver does two things:

1. Increases the muscle tone on your neck which makes the jugular vein more prominent.

2. A complicated set of events involving the heart, lungs, and vessels (as discussed below) essentially backs up the normal venous return, causing the jugular to fill with blood.

The normal physiological response consists of 4 phases:

A. Initial pressure rise: On application of expiratory force, pressure rises inside the chest forcing blood out of the pulmonary circulation into the left atrium. This causes a mild rise in blood pressure.

B. Reduced venous return and compensation: Return of systemic blood to the heart is impeded by the pressure inside the chest. The output of the heart is reduced and blood pressure falls. This occurs from 5 to about 14 seconds. The fall in blood pressure reflexively causes blood vessels to constrict with some rise in pressure (15 to 20 seconds). This compensation can be quite marked with pressure returning to near or even above normal, but the cardiac output and blood flow to the body remains low. During this time the pulse rate increases.

C. Pressure release: The pressure on the chest is released, allowing the pulmonary vessels and the aorta to re-expand causing a further initial slight fall in pressure (20 to 23 seconds) due to decreased left ventricular return and increased aortic volume, respectively. Venous blood can once more enter the chest and the heart, cardiac output begins to increase.

D. Return of cardiac output: Blood return to the heart is enhanced by the effect of entry of blood which had been dammed back, causing a rapid increase in cardiac output and of blood pressure (24 seconds on). The pressure usually rises above normal before returning to a normal level. With return of blood pressure, the pulse rate returns towards normal.



http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 913AA2q5kF


In the beginning of this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xsgE7ueaek you can see exactly where your jugulars are situated.

So now I am wondering how many of you have this, too!
Last edited by eve on Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
dx 2002,RRMS,  suspected begin of MS 1978 (age 10)
User avatar
eve
Family Elder
 
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:00 pm
Location: Netherlands

Advertisement

Postby Asher » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:39 pm

Interesting, me too. I will benchmark with family & friends (SPMS)
User avatar
Asher
Family Elder
 
Posts: 337
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:00 pm

Postby thisisalex » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:57 pm

and how do you know the size of your IJV? do you see it? or?

alex
User avatar
thisisalex
Family Elder
 
Posts: 218
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:00 pm
Location: Hungary

Postby Johnson » Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:11 pm

It could be a great screening device - much cheaper than ultra sound, or MRV.
My name is not really Johnson. MSed up since 1993
User avatar
Johnson
Family Elder
 
Posts: 979
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:00 pm
Location: Ucluluet, BC

Postby eve » Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:59 pm

@ ThisisAlex - normally it's not visible but as soon as I hold my breath there's a swelling on the right side. It is a small area, not the whole vein. Like the veins on your hand expand in some places.

It is located on the base of the neck, just above where your ribcage starts, right next to the throat. At first it does not look much like a vein, just a swelling. Once I start breathing again the vein is more pronounced. Maybe Asher can explain it more clearly as he found to have it too. My English might be lacking here.

As we are just a little group on the Dutch forum and 5 reported back to have this too I decided to post it here, having many more members. I am hoping more people will find to have this here.

@ Johnson - well it got me thinking that I do have something now to show my GP and get a referral to a vascular specialist - I only have to hold my breath to prove I have a difference in bloodflow in my jugulars! It is visible!! 8O

Asher, please post 'the results' after you've conducted your research. I'm anxious to hear them :) Was it on your right side too? No one has this with a left jug yet!
dx 2002,RRMS,  suspected begin of MS 1978 (age 10)
User avatar
eve
Family Elder
 
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:00 pm
Location: Netherlands

Postby nicko » Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:49 pm

Wow i didn't think I would see it on my neck where i'm not so skinny. But it really swells up and sticks out. Its also visible for quite some time afterward. I didn't know what I was looking for until it popped right out lol.
User avatar
nicko
Family Member
 
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2005 3:00 pm

Postby Jugular » Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:53 pm

Freaky. My right jugular swells up just like yours. So far my controls (small sample size) are all normal. I'll be making lots of people hold their breath in the next few days and see if this holds up.
User avatar
Jugular
Family Elder
 
Posts: 375
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:00 pm

Postby eve » Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:01 pm

It's amazing isn't it? i'm really not pulling legs here! Good thing i didn't post this next week. :D

So happy to hear people confirming, I am sooo excited about this! All right jugs too?
dx 2002,RRMS,  suspected begin of MS 1978 (age 10)
User avatar
eve
Family Elder
 
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:00 pm
Location: Netherlands

hold your breath utube

Postby hwebb » Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:07 pm

maybe someone could demonstrate this on utube? I tried it, but can't see any swelling. Maybe that's a good thing, as I've been "liberated". Or is it meant to swell in normal veins?
User avatar
hwebb
Family Elder
 
Posts: 356
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:00 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Postby nicko » Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:09 pm

eve wrote:It's amazing isn't it? i'm really not pulling legs here! Good thing i didn't post this next week. :D

So happy to hear people confirming, I am sooo excited about this! All right jugs too?


Yes definately my right jugular, my left is barely noticable. I didn't even know exactly where the jugular was until It popped right up. I just looked at the side of my neck above the rib cage and this bump suddenly appeared about 10 seconds after holding my breath.
User avatar
nicko
Family Member
 
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2005 3:00 pm

Postby eve » Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:10 pm

@Hwebb No, you should not have it as you are liberated. :D Only after prolonged time or maybe after holding your breath for a number of times you might see a swelling - but in both jugs and not nearly as pronounced as 'we' :) have.

I will try and get it on youtube but it might be hard to film it. It's 5 am here now, damned insomnia - i will try when i feel more refreshed. :wink:
dx 2002,RRMS,  suspected begin of MS 1978 (age 10)
User avatar
eve
Family Elder
 
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:00 pm
Location: Netherlands

thin jugular and valsalva

Postby hwebb » Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:26 pm

ok thanks for clarifying ...though my left jugular was liberated...and extremely thin (like a "pencil stenosis"). It's been widened...but is still thinner than a normal jugular. I'm thinking it may not stand out even if I've restenosed. Wish I had've tried this technique before liberation.

I will try to use the technique to monitor the success of my liberation in months to come.
User avatar
hwebb
Family Elder
 
Posts: 356
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:00 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Postby Downunder » Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:57 pm

Are you all talking about your External Jugular which drains the face and scalp, or the Internal Jugular which drains the brain?

As far as I understand the Internal Jugular, which is the only one being 'Liberated', is deep in the neck muscles and as such you should not be able to see it.
User avatar
Downunder
Family Member
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:00 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Postby eve » Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:04 pm

It's the jugular as it is shown in the beginning of this clip, the internal jugular.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xsgE7ueaek

People who have experienced this will agree that is the exact location I think? I was in doubt first too.
dx 2002,RRMS,  suspected begin of MS 1978 (age 10)
User avatar
eve
Family Elder
 
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:00 pm
Location: Netherlands

Postby hope410 » Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:56 am

No, I don't see anything at all in my neck when I try it. :?:

(I can't watch the Utube as I don't have an account to sign up)
User avatar
hope410
Family Elder
 
Posts: 125
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:00 pm

Next

Return to Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency (CCSVI)

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


Contact us | Terms of Service