Could herpes be causing CCSVI?

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Postby Rokkit » Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:11 am

Here's what I think, FWIW (and I've been around long enough to know that it ain't worth much). The large majority of MS is due primarily to congenital venous obstructions that lead to CCSVI. All of these viral components are marginal contributors in that they are endothelial disruptors and maybe just simply vasoconstrictors. A very large percentage of those with CCSVI have MS. A very tiny percentage of those with herpes have MS.
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Postby gainsbourg » Sat Apr 03, 2010 11:56 am

Rokkit said:
A very large percentage of those with CCSVI have MS. A very tiny percentage of those with herpes have MS.


Actually I think you'll find that's the other way round! Experiments have shown that DNA from VZV (herpes zoster) is present in the CSF (spinal fluid) of 95-100% of those with MS but almost never in those without MS.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17401519
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18306233

On the other hand when researchers in Buffalo scanned the veins of 500 people about 55% of MS patients had signs of CCSVI. In fact 22% of healthy people also had CCSVI. However, when 'borderline' cases were included the MS figure went up to around 65%.


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Postby Rokkit » Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:42 pm

gainsbourg wrote:Actually I think you'll find that's the other way round! Experiments have shown that DNA from VZV (herpes zoster) is present in the CSF (spinal fluid) of 95-100% of those with MS but almost never in those without MS.

That's interesting. Could just be a by-product of the breach of BBB though. The problem with what you're proposing vis-a-vis herpes causing CCSVI is that the initial consensus among experts is that the venous malformations associated with CCSVI are congenital.
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Postby ndwannabe » Sat Apr 03, 2010 1:00 pm

Rokkit wrote: The problem with what you're proposing vis-a-vis herpes causing CCSVI is that the initial consensus among experts is that the venous malformations associated with CCSVI are congenital.


Herpes is very often congenital as well.
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Postby gainsbourg » Sat Apr 03, 2010 1:54 pm

Could just be a by-product of the breach of BBB though


No I don't think it can be that, because not only are VZV antibodies found only in the CSF of MSrs but they increase by over 500% during Ms attacks...seems like somethings going on.

I know all this idea about herpes and CCSVI may sound a bit loopy but remember, the whole CCSVI thing only came about because a few lone voices challenged the "experts" who were all telling us that MS was simply an autoimmune illness.

The problem with what you're proposing vis-a-vis herpes causing CCSVI is that the initial consensus among experts is that the venous malformations associated with CCSVI are congenital


Not all of them - remember that Zamboni himself thinks there may be a CCSVI/herpes link, also neurologist Dr. Stephen Brenner.


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Postby Johnson » Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:52 pm

gainsbourg wrote:...

I know all this idea about herpes and CCSVI may sound a bit loopy but remember, the whole CCSVI thing only came about because a few lone voices challenged the "experts" who were all telling us that MS was simply an autoimmune illness.

...

Not all of them - remember that Zamboni himself thinks there may be a CCSVI/herpes link, also neurologist Dr. Stephen Brenner.


gains


That doesn't sound loopy to me at all, then again, a lot of people think that I am loopy. I prefer to call it crazy wisdom.

The auto-immune thing has just never added up to me, and I have always thought that there was a bacteriological/virological (Giardia, measles, amoebic dysentery, chicken pox...) or parasitic factor (spirochete, worms, fungal...).

There is a high measure of measles in the MS gut; mal-absorption factors in the MS digestive tract, links to Lyme disease, etc. The first things ruled out in my MS Dx were syphilis, and Lyme - both spirochete infections, though the Lyme seems hard to pin down either way.

I'm not yet convinced that CCSVI is congenital. Venous angiomae are supposedly congenital, but in the same breath I was told that, I was asked about blows to my head. I now have a second venous angioma in my brain, that was not there when I was born, was not there at last MRI in 2008, but is there now in 2010 MRI. And, no blows to the head in the interregnum.
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