Valsalva manoeuvre helps in CCSVI?????

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Postby Nunzio » Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:39 am

Words of caution: Valsalva can only work in people who have a very fine membrane blocking the internal jugular vein.
This must be a very small number. I would guess less then 1%.
In general Valsalva create reflux. You can see this because, if the maneuver is done properly, your external jugular veins will dilate and become visible on the side of the neck.
==========================================

The Valsalva Maneuver is dangerous for two reasons. The increased pressure in the thoracic cavity reduces the amount of blood flowing into the thoracic cavity, especially in the veins leading to the right atrium of the heart. The maneuver can also cause cause blood clots to detach, bleeding, irregular heart rhythms and cardiac arrest.

Many of the heart attacks which occur in bathrooms have been linked to the Valsalva Maneuver, which in turn, is closely associated with sitting toilets...
The third reason is that if you have CCSVI you will make the reflux in your brain worse.
Conclusion: You can try this Valsalva maneuver few times, but do not keep repeating it.
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Postby elyse_peace » Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:48 am

Thanks, GuRu and everyone who participated, for this interesting conversation. I have been so glad to have found this site. Gives lots to think about. What I like best is learning about everyone's experiences. And the learning that comes from that.
Thanks again. :D
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Postby North52 » Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:58 am

Guru,

I find this very interesting and even plausible. One can think of the valsalva as autoangioplasty i.e. a sort of self induced ballooning or stretching of veins outside the thoracic cavity. If you do the valsalva very hard and hold it, you can feel how tense and distended you external jugulars can become. If there is a stenosis outside of the thoracic cavity in the internal jugular vein, this valsalva may help to stretch it and perhaps improve its patency. Yes, this will temporarily increase pressure in the jugulars, refux etc, but this is for a very short period and I would be surprised if it had deleterious effects. Perhaps this is how exercise improves well being in MS patients.

North
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Postby shye » Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:24 am

I do know a woman whose husband (a medical doctor) died, straining on the toilet, so definitely carries some danger.

But thanks for the info Guru, and how it helps you. That let to this thread, and the info on the yoga breathing maneuver, the anulom vilom pranayama--that seems an approach that might very well help.
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Postby ndwannabe » Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:54 pm

Nunzio wrote:Words of caution: Valsalva can only work in people who have a very fine membrane blocking the internal jugular vein.
This must be a very small number. I would guess less then 1%.
In general Valsalva create reflux. You can see this because, if the maneuver is done properly, your external jugular veins will dilate and become visible on the side of the neck.
==========================================

The Valsalva Maneuver is dangerous for two reasons. The increased pressure in the thoracic cavity reduces the amount of blood flowing into the thoracic cavity, especially in the veins leading to the right atrium of the heart. The maneuver can also cause cause blood clots to detach, bleeding, irregular heart rhythms and cardiac arrest.

Many of the heart attacks which occur in bathrooms have been linked to the Valsalva Maneuver, which in turn, is closely associated with sitting toilets...
The third reason is that if you have CCSVI you will make the reflux in your brain worse.
Conclusion: You can try this Valsalva maneuver few times, but do not keep repeating it.


I tried the maneuver. Oh man, did I feel worse for two days after that! I guess all of the above warnings apply 100% to me.
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Re: Valsalva manoeuvre helps in CCSVI?????

Postby frodo » Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:41 am

GuRu wrote:Hi TiMS !!!
During the test, Dr. found that my Right Jugulars Vein have no flow, He asked me to take a long breath and hold it and He found that now Blood is flowing.
GuRu


I think that what you describe is not Valsalva. You said that you only hold the breath. In valsalva you have to make pressure with the air like trying to adjust your ears when you feel preassure on them.

Could you confirm that you are only holding your breath?
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Postby GuRu » Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:40 am

North52 wrote:Guru,

I find this very interesting and even plausible. One can think of the valsalva as autoangioplasty i.e. a sort of self induced ballooning or stretching of veins outside the thoracic cavity. If you do the valsalva very hard and hold it, you can feel how tense and distended you external jugulars can become. If there is a stenosis outside of the thoracic cavity in the internal jugular vein, this valsalva may help to stretch it and perhaps improve its patency. Yes, this will temporarily increase pressure in the jugulars, refux etc, but this is for a very short period and I would be surprised if it had deleterious effects. Perhaps this is how exercise improves well being in MS patients.

North


Hi North, You are right that temporarily it increase pressure jugularis but after that you feel very relax, I don´t know if it helps every one, but it helps me. Even my neurologist told me it s harmless if it helps you, DO IT.
We must learn our limits. We are all something, but none of us are everything.
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Re: Valsalva manoeuvre helps in CCSVI?????

Postby GuRu » Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:49 am

frodo wrote:
GuRu wrote:Hi TiMS !!!
During the test, Dr. found that my Right Jugulars Vein have no flow, He asked me to take a long breath and hold it and He found that now Blood is flowing.
GuRu


I think that what you describe is not Valsalva. You said that you only hold the breath. In valsalva you have to make pressure with the air like trying to adjust your ears when you feel preassure on them.

Could you confirm that you are only holding your breath?


I think you are right,I am not doing Valsalva as it described at Wikipedia, I am just holding my breath and automatically I getting some pressure in my neck thats all. But after doing this I feel always that my heart beat increasing. So I think people with any problem of Blood pressure must not do it
We must learn our limits. We are all something, but none of us are everything.
GuRu
RRMS Dx 07/09
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Re: Valsalva manoeuvre helps in CCSVI?????

Postby sbr487 » Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:24 am

GuRu wrote:
frodo wrote:
GuRu wrote:Hi TiMS !!!
During the test, Dr. found that my Right Jugulars Vein have no flow, He asked me to take a long breath and hold it and He found that now Blood is flowing.
GuRu


I think that what you describe is not Valsalva. You said that you only hold the breath. In valsalva you have to make pressure with the air like trying to adjust your ears when you feel preassure on them.

Could you confirm that you are only holding your breath?


I think you are right,I am not doing Valsalva as it described at Wikipedia, I am just holding my breath and automatically I getting some pressure in my neck thats all. But after doing this I feel always that my heart beat increasing. So I think people with any problem of Blood pressure must not do it


Holding your breath is one of the yoga technique and I have practiced earlier. I have not found any major difference.
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Re: Valsalva manoeuvre helps in CCSVI?????

Postby frodo » Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:48 am

GuRu wrote:
I think you are right,I am not doing Valsalva as it described at Wikipedia, I am just holding my breath and automatically I getting some pressure in my neck thats all. But after doing this I feel always that my heart beat increasing. So I think people with any problem of Blood pressure must not do it


Thanks. Now this fixes better with the reports of other people that have done valsalva and report problems. Maybe you have discovered a new benefitious effect of breath exercises.
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