SWANK dieters and their veins

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

SWANK dieters and their veins

Postby hwebb » Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:23 pm

wonder what the original Swank dieter's veins look like? I'm sure some patient's of Dr Swank are still with us. Dr Swank's study indicated that his successful dieter's were able to get their energy levels back after 3-5 years on the diet, and they only had a relapse every 10 years or so. Is this because their veins repaired...or because their blood was such low viscosity? Wouldn't this be a fascinating follow-up study?
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Postby Johnson » Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:56 pm

Hi Helen,

I'm not sure, but I bought Swank's book on recommendation when I was Dx'd, only to discover that I have been on a Swank diet since I was 4 years old - other than the dairy, legumes and grains. No saturated fats though. No red meat. No meat... I take very little dairy, and grains are minimal too. Protein is always a challenge, and fish are so... suspect (hence, the legumes). No sweets (never did like them), all "organic", triple-filtered water, etc. I had 16 variable years (MS-wise), but year 17 (the last), not so good at all.

Sorry - train of thought just derailed.
My name is not really Johnson. MSed up since 1993
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Postby Acheron » Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:05 am

Hi Helen, I was wondering the same thing. I agree with you that low blood viscosity is a factor here. I would add more flexible veins, endothelial health and lack of plaque buildup as protection against blockages in some cases.
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Postby shye » Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:30 am

Swank found dairy to be the biggest culprit, moreso than meat.
My theory on his theory is that if you ate ONLY raw milk products (no pasteurized, no homogenized) your veins would be fine--if the animals are grass-fed, and given no hormones and antibiotics. Ditto for the saturated fat in meat--if you ate only grass-fed, no hormones, no antibiotic fed meat, your veins would be fine. Cattle raised this way have LESS saturated fat than chickens do, and have more omega 3 acids.

Our culture is killing us--we need to get back to basics as far as food is concerned.
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Postby Johnson » Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:03 am

I forgot to mention that the milk products we eat are unpasteurized, grass-fed, no hormones, no anti-biotics, etc. From Guernsey cows, no less.
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Postby LR1234 » Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:14 am

Johnson are you RRMS or SPMS? have you been tested for CCSVI?
My feeling is some people who do not have serious CCSVI issues can overcome MS via diet and calming down the immune response naturally.
Others I think have CCSVI issues that no diet will help until the blood flow is restored. (thats just my opinion)

That is probably why some MSers respond to drugs and others don't maybe
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Postby zinamaria » Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:39 am

I'm not sure about that on the grass-fed, bio, raw dairy etc and the effects on MS. I think Dr Swank's research points to sat fat being inflammatory. There is also research to support that egg yolks, which have saturated fat, are also inflammatory.
I live in Italy and have had access to the best raw dairy products, including raw goat's milk, and grass fed red meats. Everything organically fed too, right from the farmer's hands. And on top of that we made Kefir with the raw milks which is even better because of its fermented properties.
It has been my experience that I had to quit all dairy and red meat, once again, because I started to have symptoms after eating these products. I am still not sure about the relationship between inflammation and CCSVI, but I think Swank was looking at oils, and fats, and their effects on inflammation.

I absolutely agree that if one can and wants to eat dairy and meat they should be back to the 'basics' as regards grass fed meats and non-pasteurized raw dairy.

I would love to think it is how far removed we've gotten and if we could get back, because now more than ever, especially in America and Canada, the awareness around how to eat without all the s___ in our food is so incredible and their are options. Here in Italy you only need to know an honest farmer. But as far as the awareness around pesticides etc, well, they have a little ways to go yet.

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z
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Postby Johnson » Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:42 am

LR1234 wrote:Johnson are you RRMS or SPMS? have you been tested for CCSVI?
My feeling is some people who do not have serious CCSVI issues can overcome MS via diet and calming down the immune response naturally.
Others I think have CCSVI issues that no diet will help until the blood flow is restored. (thats just my opinion)

That is probably why some MSers respond to drugs and others don't maybe

Hi LR1234,

I was RRMS for 16 years, but considering that I have been having a relapse for the last year, I believe I am now SPMS.

I do, definitely have CCSVI - in a big way. I have a strong belief that it is the Lyme spirochete causing endothelial damage in me. I have been tested for Lyme, but it is notoriously difficult to diagnose, and treat.
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Postby zinamaria » Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:15 pm

Hey Johnson,

Why do you think it might be Lyme's? I've wondered about that to with myself...Oh, also are you familiar with Dr Loren Cordain's research on legumes and grains as they relate to MS. Interesting stuff. There's a video on him speaking on this and you can also find a related article on Dr Ashton Embry's site....Stay well my friend.

Zina
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research on legumes and grains

Postby Selmahope » Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:47 am

zinamaria wrote:Hey Johnson,

Oh, also are you familiar with Dr Loren Cordain's research on legumes and grains as they relate to MS. Interesting stuff. There's a video on him speaking on this and you can also find a related article on Dr Ashton Embry's site....Stay well my friend.

Zina



Can you post the links for this research?
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Postby zinamaria » Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:17 am

Selmahope,
I am terrible with the post links stuff, but if you google Dr Loren Cordains name and 'legumes' or go to MS-Direct, which is Dr.Embry's site I think, you will find the research I mention. Cordain has associated 'lectins' which is a protein found in legumes, to pose a problem in the gut, leaking through the gut into the blood, crossing the blood brain barrier and wreaking havoc...the same with gluten grains. He also warns against tomatoes for the same reason.
Leaky gut seems to be a problem for most with MS..Anyhow I do not wish to paraphrase because I don't trust my brain at them moment to present this info and am myself still learning. Let me know if you can't find the information and I will do my best and then pm you something on it.
z
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Postby Lelo » Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:33 pm

I have been waiting for this discussion and is eager to hear if there is someone more than me, who has been on the diet (me sep 2007) and also had the their veins fixed. I had my procedure done the 14th of March in Poland and I have had small improvement. But honestly I can not compare it with the improvement I had starting the BBD. I felt pretty safe inside going to Poland. I still had my diet and it, for sure helps me control my ms. So now I am double safe inside and the "Sun is shining".
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diet and veins

Postby hwebb » Sun Apr 25, 2010 3:40 pm

I follow the Jelinek diet recommendations, and have had my veins "fixed". Need more work on my veins though (getting round 2 done in July 2010).
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Postby cheerleader » Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:13 pm

Jeff was on the Swank Diet and my endothelial health program for two years, and his jugular veins were occluded 95% left and 80% right. I hate to say it, but I think diet and lifestyle can only overcome so much....
cheer
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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dieting and surgery...can only achieve so much.

Postby hwebb » Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:59 pm

I agree that optimizing diet can only do so much. Like I said - hasn't done anything to reduce my relapse rate so far. I think surgery can only do so much also (I have this pencil stenosis going from the middle of my head to halfway down my neck...an incredibly narrow vein. Even if it's appropriately stented it'll only be about 10% of "normal" diameter).

I still wonder how Swank's patients were able to achieve such a low relapse rate, and minimal progression of disability. Were his observations real or skewed by bias? Some of his original patients must still be about.
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