Miracle from stem cell, but came for CCSVI treatment

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Miracle from stem cell, but came for CCSVI treatment

Postby manojag22 » Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:22 am

Dear all MS'ers,

Some very good news want to share all of you, I met this guy Rajiv Chadhha (on wheel chair) who came to Mumbai from Toronto Canada for CCSVI treatment but his venous system was found to be absolutely perfect, no stenosis or blockages in any veins. After this finding he decided to go for stem cell treat...ment, and he went thru Bone marrow stem cell therapy on this Tuesday and I met him today, and found that his voice became almost normal, his bladder control is fully back and he could feel warmness in his feet and much better energy and these changes in less than 48 hrs., its really a sort of miracle and today he is going back to Canada.
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Postby sofia » Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:41 am

Very exciting news. there is one of my nationals, going fot stecell treatment, I think it was in Costa Rica, or somewhere in latin america. His story is comming up on national ms society page, and I will follow with great intrest.
<div>I have lived with ms for 8 years. The last year has been hell, I've gone from shite to even worse every single month, until my liberation in May. </div>
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Postby eric593 » Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:52 am

What did this stem cell treatment entail?

I understood stem cell treatment to involve completely irradiating/removing the immune system only to reboot it with the introduction of either the patients own, or an exogenous source of stem cells. This requires isolation for days as the patient has no immune system between the removal of their existing system and the regeneration of the new one through stem cells.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1 ... erapy.html

This couldn't possibly have been completed between Tuesday and Thursday and he would still be isolated from all outside contact apart from the medical personnel? Yet you say he's already seeing improvements and you've talked to him?
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Postby sbr487 » Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:00 am

Folks, I dont want to dampen your enthusiasm but here is the reason why I dont think this is a solution ...

We know that immune system plays a vital role in MS. The personal immune memory is stored in bone marrow and this is transplanted, it would basically reset the immune system. This means immune system is no longer attacking the brain, but only until a period when the system is back to normal working. It might take weeks, months but old state will come back. I have read somewhere that people who had stem cell treatment found great recovery for a few weeks before their symptoms appeared again.

Its will be good if this solution is permanent, but I have my own doubts.
Remember that this has been around for years now and still it has not picked up. There must be a reason for that.
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Postby manojag22 » Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:04 am

he has been treated with his bone marrow (autologous) stem cell, the process is draw bone marrow and separate stem cell and multiply it and then inserted it into damage area thru spinal fluid.
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stem cell treatment

Postby 1eye » Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:08 am

The standard treatment has included the ablation of the existing immune system. This indicates that the doctors who did it did not believe there was anything much wrong with the existing immune system. The fact they did not get rid of his memory T-cells might mean they don't think they are activated by iron deposits, or in his case anyway.

-Chris
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Postby ikulo » Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:12 am

Most of the stem cell treatments abroad do NOT remove the immune system.
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Postby manojag22 » Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:51 am

Bone marrow (autologous) stem cell therapy has been safest teratment for spinal cord related damages, without any known side effects and risks. His Immune ystem has not been rebooted by destroying bone marrow cells but rather bone marrow was extracted and processed to separate stem cell, which then multiplied and inserted into CSF fluid thru spinal tap and he responded well within hours as mentioned earlier. Now he has to continue with physio therapy for 6 months which will help him to restore nerve and muscular function of the body which were in activated earlier. After 6 months most probably he would go thru another round of same therapy.
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Postby Asher » Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:47 am

No offense, but if anything can be called junk science and spreading false hope, well this is it. Stem cell therapy is the subject of intense research. Despite countless controlled clinical trials, no where has it yet been proven to bring sustainable benefit to either MS, ALS or diabetes patients. We would do better to stick to the topic of this forum, CCSVI.
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Postby fogdweller » Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:04 am

manojag22 wrote:Bone marrow (autologous) stem cell therapy has been safest teratment for spinal cord related damages, without any known side effects and risks. His Immune ystem has not been rebooted by destroying bone marrow cells but rather bone marrow was extracted and processed to separate stem cell, which then multiplied and inserted into CSF fluid thru spinal tap and he responded well within hours as mentioned earlier. Now he has to continue with physio therapy for 6 months which will help him to restore nerve and muscular function of the body which were in activated earlier. After 6 months most probably he would go thru another round of same therapy.


This makes no sense. If his own bone marrow was removed and replaced, even if it was enriched with amplified stem cells, it would not really be doing anything. If the stem cells were implanted in the spinal fluid, wouldn't they be foreign to that portion of the body if the BBB was working properly? If so they would do damage, not healing. The instant impromvement that was experienced is the type often experienced in RRMS, and if enhanced by the placebo effect, would make me learly of acceptng this.

I smell junk science. I'll bet it cost a bundle.
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Dr. Geeta schroff

Postby Selmahope » Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:12 pm

Manoj- Have you heard any feedback in India on Dr. Geeta Schroff's work ( i think she is in Delhi?)- she uses embryonic stem cells-wondering what are her results with MS or other immune disorders?

There is one good report on chronic lyme.
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Postby Johnson » Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:47 pm

I think that the only reason to destroy the immune system is in the case of a truly auto-immune disease, or the introduction of exogenous factors - like another person's stem cells, or kidney, or such. I have never believed that MS is auto-immune, and it has never been proved. I suspect that is why the Indian docs saw no reason to "re-boot".

Stem cells are everywhere in our bodies, and researchers have extracted them from skin cells, buccal cells in the mouth, and such, and multiplied them. They belong everywhere in the body and differentiate into specific cells when and where it is needed. I think that the person who had the stem cell therapy might go back to where he was if the cause of his neurological damage is not treated - whether it is CCSVI, or auto-immune, or environmental. Perhaps just a temporary patch job.

I'm sure that it is not "junk science", but it might be like letting a 14 year old over-haul your car engine - as in, highly experimental.
My name is not really Johnson. MSed up since 1993
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Re: stem cell treatment

Postby ndwannabe » Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:08 pm

1eye wrote:The standard treatment has included the ablation of the existing immune system.

-Chris


Yep, that is how my friend's procedure went. She says it was the scariest several months of her life. She had to undergo chemo and the whole nine yards.

Though she sort of did not have much choice - she started deterioration so rapidly.

She has gotten better for sure, though still has MS symptoms (just not as bad as during that last relapse)
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