Cervical Reason for CCSVI

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Postby shye » Sun May 23, 2010 6:26 am

Please let us know how your return visit to the chiro works out--as you know from my posts, Chiro work on my atlas has been a miracle--definitley MS from neck trauma from years ago--and ignored by MS specialist as of no connection with the MS.
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Postby Sharon » Sun May 23, 2010 7:09 am

Zap -

I am close to Boulder so I will give Dr. Elster a call. Even though I have been treated by Dr. Dake, I would like to connect with her. I will get her and my chiropractor together - he treats about 50 MS patients - he has had conversations with Dake and I keep him uptodate on all the research.

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Postby LR1234 » Sun May 23, 2010 8:17 am

Hi Shye,
I went back to Chiro but we decided not to click any part of my neck but just to ease the muscles up. I think if I didn't have such a serious vertigo attack after the treatment I would be more inclined to have him take another look at it.
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Postby Merlyn » Sun May 23, 2010 12:53 pm

Shye-congratulations on your improvement! I went to an upper cervical chiropractor a couple of years ago, but I am not sure she was the best chiropractor in the world... I also went to this chiropractor years ago, but I suspect that because I had a bridge in my mouth that covered the midline, that the technique did more harm than good... I no longer have the bridge (the midline is indicated by the dip in your upper lip below the nose and when you put a rigid bridge in the mouth that crosses the midline it freezes your entire skull in place). My holistic dentist showed me how this works, your skull is made of various plates, and when you cross the midline he showed me how these plates could no longer move). Maybe I should pursue treatment again, because I have a class III maloccusional and I've always suspected that it affects my neck/spine...

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Postby SammyJo » Sun May 23, 2010 2:31 pm

My upper jugulars were mashed against the little process bones that stick out of the sides of the C1 vertebrae, called an "osseous occlusion". I don't think the years of chiropractic adjustments could fix it, although I'd always see things brighter and walk a little better afterwards. There just wasn't enough room in my scrawny neck!

Here's the images from the MRV, after and before.

RRMS '95 SPMS '02 | CCSVI 10/09 | Adult stem cells 2012 | http://www.patientsforstemcells.org/
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Postby cathyb » Mon May 24, 2010 5:19 am


I have been seeing a chiropractor since I heard about CCSVI, and my neck showed trauma. My thinking was perhaps the trauma caused the flow problems and so an adjustment would help improve flow.

The issue is this: Since I have been having adjustments, my vertigo has gotten worse, as has the heavy feeling in my feet. Plus, now, when I stand up, it feels like all of the blood is rushing to my feet and I feel light-headed. I mentioned it to the chiro, he said it's normal to have blood rush to your feet when you stand up quickly, but it's bizzare and makes me feel like I am about to fall over. Maybe thats normal?

Given CCSVI, why do you think adjustments would cause this or do you think it's related at all? I am just curious to get your thoughts, since I find it odd that 'getting right' would cause perceived problems, but there they are.


P.S. Adjustments always make my neck feel warm, which leads me to believe something is flowing that wasn't flowing before, but did I inadvertently make reflux worse or something? That would really STINK!
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Upper Cervical specialists and Dr. Elster

Postby notadoc » Mon May 24, 2010 6:29 am

I have been a patient of Dr. Elster for several years and I have to give her the full credit for allowing me to function over that time. When I tried to tell my neuros about the immediate symptom relief from upper cervical treatment they assured me that was impossible. Maybe some coincidence or placebo effect, but certainly aligning the atlas-axis could not impact an autoimmune disease.

Now that I have learned about CCSVI it all makes sense. The vertebrae COULD impinge on the vein(s) which COULD cause CCSVI, which COULD cause MS.

I have to say that my current neuro is open to new thinking and is very interested in CCSVI. I would give him a plug here, but I have not obtained his permission to use his name. I would, however, encourage anyone who is interested to check out Dr. Elster. She has patients flying in from distant states for treatment, and I would do the same if I was not so fortunate as to live nearby.

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Postby Sharon » Mon May 24, 2010 7:18 am

Notadoc - check your PM's

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Postby LR1234 » Mon May 24, 2010 10:33 am

I went to a physio who specialises in vertigo.
He did a test on me which suggests that I have BPPV.
I had rotary nystagmus associated with my right ear.
I also have nystagmus from my MS but this is very different from the rotary nystagmus.
He did the Epley manuever on me today so I hope this will help my vertigo.
He can't say for sure that the MS has not complicated the diagnosis as some issues can be from the MS but I def have BPPV. (Bppv usually only lasts a few minutes at a time and not for 6 weeks constantly like this so we will see)
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Cervical reason for CCSVI

Postby Taurus » Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:26 am

I had posted my experience under Eagle Syndrome causing CCSVI. Kindly see if this is not your case. Your radiologist will be the best to tell u as in my case.
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Postby Nunzio » Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:09 am

I think your problems are related to Dr. Noda CTOS/CTNVS.
you can read about it here:http://www.thisisms.com/ftopict-10649.html[url]
This is my last post:
I think Dr. Zamboni incorporated some of Dr. Noda CTOS finding into CCSVI.
We all have seen picture of a bone impinging on a Internal Jugular Vein, usually called a pinched vein. In reality we know the bone alone cannot do it.
The vein would just shift a bit on the side and be fine. To have a narrowing you need another structure, like a muscle on the other side squeezing the vein against the bone. As you can imagine, balloon angioplasty alone cannot fix that problem because, sooner or later the external pressure will squeeze the vein against the bone again. Stents might work better but the final answer would be to eliminate the external pressure by operating on the muscle, as proposed by Dr. Noda. A similar situation is probably the long narrowing we see in the middle of the jugular vein. That is why we have a high rate of restenosis. Hopefully this soon will be worked out so that the success rate of the procedure will increase.
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Postby jr5646 » Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:18 am

I recently found an old Cervical MRI report that I found interesting (possibly CTOS/CTNVS/CCSVI related). Dated: Jan. 6th 2003 - "The focal area of increased signal noted within the cervical cord posterior to the C3/4 level is again noted and has not changed significantly when compared to prior exam of 8-7-2002. No significant cord enlargement or enhancment occurs at this level. As noted on the previous examination, a small focal posterial protrusion of C4/5 inverteratebral disc occurs just to the left of midline and has not changed significantly since the prior study. A more prominent right posterior osteophyte and disc protrusion is noted at the C5/6 level which appears to impress on the right anterior aspect of the cervical cord. This is also similar to the prior exam. There is generalized congenital spinal canal narrowing from C3 to the top of C7 also similar to the previous study. No significant abnormal areas of gadolinium enhancement noted. No suspicious signal changes in the imaged bony structures."

Greg Buchanan (not a Dr.) was talking about all this in his newsletter back in March 2004 http://www.upcspine.com/news_vol2_0304.htm

What amazes me is that not "ONE" neuro. (I've had a few) has ever brought up any possible alternative treatments - just DRUGS and followup appts. with them $$$.

"MR VENOGRAM FINDINGS 5-24-2010: The superior sagittal sinus with appears to drain predomininatly on the right. The transverse sinuses are relavetly symmetric in size. The sigmoid sinuses and jugular bulbs are relatively symmetric in size. At the base of the brain, the internal jugular veins are well visualized. At the level of the cranical/cervical junction junction on the right, the internal jugular on the right takes on a flattened morphology with respect to flow charactists. This segment is small in size being less than 10mm. Throughout the neck, the internal jugular veins have an ellipsoid morphology. The junction of the internal jugular veins with the subclavian veins is normal in apperance. There is slight asymmetry of the internal juglar veins with the right being larger than the left."

The more we learn, the more questions we have... :?: :?: :?:
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