80% it's true revisited

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

80% it's true revisited

Postby Billmeik » Sun May 09, 2010 7:54 am

can't find the old thread but zamboni says it again in this talk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3kXJF87PvI


I downloaded ziv's speech and I took screenshots of the data but I stiill don't see it.
User avatar
Billmeik
Family Elder
 
Posts: 694
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:00 pm

Advertisement

Re: 80% it's true revisited

Postby Sotiris » Sun May 09, 2010 10:47 am

Billmeik wrote:can't find the old thread but zamboni says it again in this talk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3kXJF87PvI


I downloaded ziv's speech and I took screenshots of the data but I stiill don't see it.
It is in page 28 of Ziv's presentation:
Image
54,55% to 63,64% for PP
89,47% for Relapsing SP
67,21% to 77,05% for non-relapsing SP
User avatar
Sotiris
Family Elder
 
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:00 pm
Location: Greece

Postby Billmeik » Sun May 09, 2010 1:10 pm

Image
User avatar
Billmeik
Family Elder
 
Posts: 694
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:00 pm

Postby scorpion » Sun May 09, 2010 1:15 pm

Why is the post entitled 80%?
User avatar
scorpion
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1323
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:00 pm

Postby Billmeik » Sun May 09, 2010 1:19 pm

I still get much less than 80 but there is no category for cis either.
User avatar
Billmeik
Family Elder
 
Posts: 694
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:00 pm

Postby Billmeik » Sun May 09, 2010 1:41 pm

Why is the post entitled 80%


if you look at the zamboni speech he says that buffalo gets more than 80% if you take out the cis.

As was being suggested in the first version of this thread. ( if someone with better eyesight can dig that up)
User avatar
Billmeik
Family Elder
 
Posts: 694
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:00 pm

Postby ttt1 » Sun May 09, 2010 2:25 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3kXJF87PvI#t=220
"..of people with Relapsing Remitting and with Secondary Progressive that was at the base of our study..."

(Relapsing SP + Non relapsing SP)(CCSVI) / (Relapsing SP + Non relapsing SP)(Total - Borderline) = (17+41)/(19+61-6) = 78.37% plus a tiny bit more to exclude Pediatric MS ?
Secondary Progressive was the base of Zamboni's study ?
User avatar
ttt1
Family Member
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:00 pm

Postby Billmeik » Sun May 09, 2010 3:29 pm

ya that sounds right.

http://www.thisisms.com/ftopict-10255-.html


found the original thread
User avatar
Billmeik
Family Elder
 
Posts: 694
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:00 pm

Postby Sotiris » Sun May 09, 2010 9:49 pm

ttt1 wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3kXJF87PvI#t=220
"..of people with Relapsing Remitting and with Secondary Progressive that was at the base of our study..."

(Relapsing SP + Non relapsing SP)(CCSVI) / (Relapsing SP + Non relapsing SP)(Total - Borderline) = (17+41)/(19+61-6) = 78.37% plus a tiny bit more to exclude Pediatric MS ?
Secondary Progressive was the base of Zamboni's study ?
And if instead of excluding the borderline we include it as CCSVI we do have:
(17+41+6)/(19+61)=80%
User avatar
Sotiris
Family Elder
 
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:00 pm
Location: Greece

Postby frodo » Sun May 09, 2010 11:46 pm

Sotiris wrote:
ttt1 wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3kXJF87PvI#t=220
"..of people with Relapsing Remitting and with Secondary Progressive that was at the base of our study..."

(Relapsing SP + Non relapsing SP)(CCSVI) / (Relapsing SP + Non relapsing SP)(Total - Borderline) = (17+41)/(19+61-6) = 78.37% plus a tiny bit more to exclude Pediatric MS ?
Secondary Progressive was the base of Zamboni's study ?
And if instead of excluding the borderline we include it as CCSVI we do have:
(17+41+6)/(19+61)=80%

I would say that the correct procedure would be not to include borderlines neither in one group nor the other, and not to include in any group either the CIS cases. I think that doing this two things the numbers were again close to 80%
User avatar
frodo
Family Elder
 
Posts: 598
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:00 pm

Postby Billmeik » Mon May 10, 2010 6:15 am

this is important to me because I felt a little brow beaten when we were talking about this last month. I was right!
User avatar
Billmeik
Family Elder
 
Posts: 694
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:00 pm

Postby Asher » Mon May 10, 2010 6:31 am

A layman's observation: Having watched the Zamboni talk and tables it looks to me like the Buffalo sample was pretty contaminated; CIS, siblings, geriatric patients... A missed opportunity given the resources that were thrown at it.
User avatar
Asher
Family Elder
 
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:00 pm

Postby costumenastional » Mon May 10, 2010 6:41 am

The ONLY way for someone to tell if there is CCSVI for sure is via plebography. Doppler and MRVs are often wrong. They could easily show CCSVI or not but only the surgeon will tell you what's going on IF anything. I dont think that Zivadinov or anyone else can publish correct results without going in. They are just trying to push to the right direction using what they are allowed to use.
Dont mind about these numbers. Just try to have a plebography done.
User avatar
costumenastional
Family Elder
 
Posts: 740
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:00 pm
Location: Greece

Postby Vhoenecke » Mon May 10, 2010 6:55 am

I don't know all the terms all I know is I was liberated April 28 in Poland and I feel really great. Could you tell me what a plebograph is? I had an MRV the night before my procedure and a dopler the morning of my procedure. The doppler showed I had issues in both the left and right side but the actual procedure showed only the right side. I could always feel where my stenosis was and I would point to the place ever since Zamboni was on TV in my country. On the table they showed me what they did on the CD after they were done the procedure and I asked the doctor if the spot I had been pointing to for 5 months was correct. Yes it was. I think the only test that really tells what's up is the procedure, the MRV did show as well.

All the best.

Val
User avatar
Vhoenecke
Family Elder
 
Posts: 332
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:00 pm
Location: Rosetown, Canada

Postby costumenastional » Mon May 10, 2010 7:01 am

Val, the vlebography/angiography is the procedure :)

Once they go in it is called like this and if they dilate a balloon or place a stent it becomes angioplasty. (PTA - PERCUTANEOUS TRANSLUMINAL ANGIOGRAPHY)

shit... how come everybody feels better xcept me... :(
User avatar
costumenastional
Family Elder
 
Posts: 740
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:00 pm
Location: Greece

Next

Return to Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency (CCSVI)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Rosegirl