Zamboni's MS theory on thin ice?

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Postby BooBear » Mon May 17, 2010 4:34 am

My parents emigrated to this country in 1966 from Rome. There was no history of MS in our family at all before my case (and I can go rather far back in my family history with ease- my father was number 8 out of 9 kids, and my mom was the "suprise" baby; as such my paternal grandparents were born in 1890 and 1900, my maternal grandparents born in 1910 and 1915). Doesn't take me long to go back over 100 years in history, even though I was born in 1970.

I am eager to learn the results of my test, whenever I can get it done (hopefully soon!), because the genetic aspect should be present. But I will say, though, that I believe that Vitamin D3 also plays a part.
Dr. Zamboni is in Ferrara, Italy, which is in the north and a colder climate than sunny central Italy (where my family originates). Also, Ferrara is more inland, so the people there do not eat as much seafood as the central regions.

Me? I was born in Chicago. Not exactly a sunny, warm climate. And I hate fish and seafood, so I very rarely eat it. If I was predisposed genetically to vascular deformations, then I could see the lack of D3 vitamin as a major contributor.

I know take 1000iu of D3 a day as well.

I will let everyone know what I find out as soon as I can get tested (blast!).
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Postby Billmeik » Mon May 17, 2010 8:11 am

that doc's blog I read yesterday, he was on 10,00-0 iu of vit D!


Im more like 4000 iu
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Postby Daisy3 » Mon May 17, 2010 8:16 am

Billmeik wrote:that doc's blog I read yesterday, he was on 10,00-0 iu of vit D!


Im more like 4000 iu


I noticed that too. Seeing as he is a doc though i guess he is in a better position to judge if it is safe to take that amount.
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Postby BooBear » Mon May 17, 2010 1:17 pm

Not to derail this topic into a total vitamin D3 discussion, but I had mistyped my dosage. I am taking 1000ius of calcium daily to help facilitate the 2000iu of D3 that I am taking.

No one really knows what the safe amount of D3 is...a fair-skinned person will generate 14000ius of D3 in ten minutes of sun exposure. Is it too much? Too little? Not sure, but I do know that D3 must be pretty important if your body will manufacture it for you.
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Postby Billmeik » Mon May 17, 2010 1:25 pm

I didnt even notice this was a thread on Freedman. Why do we only hear hysterical blathering from neuros and never an opposing model of what's going on? Why don't they at least use science to confront science and not name calling and noise?
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Postby ikulo » Mon May 17, 2010 1:42 pm

There's actually a few studies that say 10,000 is safe to take. This one, for example...
A phase I/II dose-escalation trial of vitamin D3 and calcium in multiple sclerosis.

Burton JM, Kimball S, Vieth R, Bar-Or A, Dosch HM, Cheung R, Gagne D, D'Souza C, Ursell M, O'Connor P.

From the Division of Neurology (J.M.B., P.O.), St. Michael's Hospital, Toronto; University of Toronto (J.M.B., S.K., R.V., H.-M.D., R.C., C.D., P.O.), Toronto; Department of Nutritional Sciences and Laboratory Medicine and Pathology (S.K., R.V.), Mount Sinai Hospital, Toronto; Montreal Neurological Institute (A.B.-O., D.G.), Montreal; McGill University (A.B.-O., D.G.), Montreal; The Neurosciences & Mental Health Program (H.-M.D., R.C.), Hospital for Sick Children, Toronto; Center for Research in Neurodegenerative Diseases (C.D.), University of Toronto; and Division of Neurology (M.U.), Etobicoke General Hospital, Toronto, Canada.
Abstract

OBJECTIVE: Low vitamin D status has been associated with multiple sclerosis (MS) prevalence and risk, but the therapeutic potential of vitamin D in established MS has not been explored. Our aim was to assess the tolerability of high-dose oral vitamin D and its impact on biochemical, immunologic, and clinical outcomes in patients with MS prospectively. METHODS: An open-label randomized prospective controlled 52-week trial matched patients with MS for demographic and disease characteristics, with randomization to treatment or control groups. Treatment patients received escalating vitamin D doses up to 40,000 IU/day over 28 weeks to raise serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D [25(OH)D] rapidly and assess tolerability, followed by 10,000 IU/day (12 weeks), and further downtitrated to 0 IU/day. Calcium (1,200 mg/day) was given throughout the trial. Primary endpoints were mean change in serum calcium at each vitamin D dose and a comparison of serum calcium between groups. Secondary endpoints included 25(OH)D and other biochemical measures, immunologic biomarkers, relapse events, and Expanded Disability Status Scale (EDSS) score. RESULTS: Forty-nine patients (25 treatment, 24 control) were enrolled [mean age 40.5 years, EDSS 1.34, and 25(OH)D 78 nmol/L]. All calcium-related measures within and between groups were normal. Despite a mean peak 25(OH)D of 413nmol/L, no significant adverse events occurred. Although there may have been confounding variables in clinical outcomes, treatment group patients appeared to have fewer relapse events and a persistent reduction in T-cell proliferation compared to controls. CONCLUSIONS: High-dose vitamin D ( approximately 10,000 IU/day) in multiple sclerosis is safe, with evidence of immunomodulatory effects. Classification of evidence: This trial provides Class II evidence that high-dose vitamin D use for 52 weeks in patients with multiple sclerosis does not significantly increase serum calcium levels when compared to patients not on high-dose supplementation. The trial, however, lacked statistical precision and the design requirements to adequately assess changes in clinical disease measures (relapses and Expanded Disability Status Scale scores), providing only Class level IV evidence for these outcomes.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20427749
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Postby Johnson » Mon May 17, 2010 2:58 pm

To add to discussion on D3 - I take 10,000-15,000 IU/day, and have for years. I have also taken single doses of 50,000 IU to "kill" an oncoming "flu" - to no ill effect. My three year old gets 5,000 IU/day. One really has to get into dosages of 100,000s IU before any toxicity becomes apparent.

An interesting interview regarding D3 (if poor in production) -

http://www.youtube.com/user/jagbodhi#p/u/4/HH1rB-Ya2UQ

Wikipedia on Hypervitaminosis (D3) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervitaminosis_D

Symptoms of excess vitamin D are hypercalcimia, anorexia, irritability, amongst others.

Keep in mind that RDA (recommended daily allowance) is the minimum requirement to maintain health. RDA for Vit. D is 400 IU.

*I am not an endocrinologist, dietician, nor a clinician of any sort, so my view is solely my view, and not intended to be advice.
My name is not really Johnson. MSed up since 1993
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