Liberation or Placebo Effect (article)

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Postby jimmylegs » Thu May 20, 2010 3:40 pm

all right folks. please let's all start considering whether disrespectful retaliation (to perceived or real disrespect) is actually allowed on this site. the answer is no.

FYI from Rules of the Board http://www.thisisms.com/ftopict-39.html
...we can not and do not monitor every posting for content-- all problems should be reported to the moderator(s); otherwise assume we have not seen the offending posts.

If you disagree with someone, please succintly state why and let it go at that. Point, counterpoint, counter-counter point, etc. is not useful-- the reality is that after the first disagreement, you will rarely convince another of something they feel strongly about unless you have shocking new information to share. The drawn-out debates also turn people off from reading the messages in the first place. If you really have to get something off your chest, please send that person a Private Message-- there is no need to have a long argument in public.

Effective immediately (July 8, 2004. JL), if I receive more than 5 PMs from established posters (registered for over 1 month, with more than 10 posts) complaining in detail-- with examples-- about a particular member, I will put the member on notice of the complaints and ask them to provide a public response. If after posting the defense, those same complaints are upheld, the member will be banned. If no defense is provided, the member will of course be banned.
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Thank you

Postby MarkW » Fri May 21, 2010 2:31 pm

Jimmylegs,
Thanks for your calmimg words.
Kind regards,
MarkW
Mark Walker - Oxfordshire, England. Registered Pharmacist (UK). 10 years of study around MS.
Mark's CCSVI Report 7-Mar-11:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/8359854/MS-experts-in-Britain-have-to-open-their-minds.html
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Postby Rose2 » Fri May 21, 2010 2:57 pm

Happy Anniversary To Me!!!!!
Today is my 7 month Liberation Anniversary!!!!!
Yipeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!
Still improving daily. Ran (yes) up 3 flight of stairs to my old office the other day. Just stopped by to say Hey to the old gang. Heck, I used to take the elevator when I was working there.
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
I would like to use my positive experience to promote faith and healing to those who really wonder if this can work. Yes, it can. It did for me.
Faith that this will soon be happening for everyone to access.
Healing when the blood starts to flow!!!
MS FREE!!
Sincerely, Rose ;)
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Postby mshusband » Fri May 21, 2010 3:04 pm

How much placebo did they give you Rose that it's lasted 7 months?

I don't even have MS and I'd like some of that ...
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Re: Get liberation. Even if you have to go to another count

Postby Rokkit » Fri May 21, 2010 3:11 pm

Lyon wrote:For an exercise in humility, spend some time at the aimspro forum, only substitute the world "aimspro" for "CCSVI" http://www.thisisms.com/forum-29.html

If you're not too far gone you'll get one of those deja vu rushes!

Well, one wouldn't need to spend too much time there, a staggering 263 posts.
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Postby Rose2 » Fri May 21, 2010 3:25 pm

mshusband,
Yep! Just call me Placebo but don't call me late for dinner!
Rose ;)
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Postby prairiegirl » Fri May 21, 2010 3:28 pm

Ha! Great to hear of your continued improvements, Rose 2!
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New word

Postby FlashHack » Fri May 21, 2010 3:32 pm

I think we need a new word for what Rose2 and others have experienced.

PlaZebo effect: Unexplainable positive effects from an obviously sham procedure backed by defective theories and no research by doctors with funny last names.
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Re: Get liberation. Even if you have to go to another count

Postby Lyon » Fri May 21, 2010 3:50 pm

.
Last edited by Lyon on Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby mshusband » Fri May 21, 2010 3:53 pm

Now that's a sensible post Lyon. And maybe a point I'd ask you to clarify.

But ... of all the things in the past (again I don't know about them all - new to MS) ... how many were actual medical problems?

Do you agree that blood flow draining from the brain and spine are likely an important medical problem? Regardless of MS or not.

If my blood wasn't draining from my head ... I know I'd be concerned ...
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Postby Billmeik » Fri May 21, 2010 4:36 pm

.
The point is that there have been lots of things come down the pike over the years and the supporters have invariably been convinced that their interest was a step above the things in the past


by things I take it you mean medicinations. Those aren't vascular interventions. They merit a rigorous testing, double blinded testing etc.

ccvi is different. Applying logic from medications testing is stupid. This a surgical change you can see. Nothing needs to be measured. Just change in patient outcome.[/quote]
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Postby Lyon » Fri May 21, 2010 6:03 pm

.
Last edited by Lyon on Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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placebo

Postby blossom » Fri May 21, 2010 6:08 pm

rose2, so glad to hear the positive and you are doing so well. i like hearing that kind of news.
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Postby scorpion » Fri May 21, 2010 6:20 pm

Beyond the placebo effect fact lets remember that RRMS means that symptoms wax and wane. When I had my first attack I could not walk a straight line for about four months but over time I returned almost back to normal. If I would have had the liberation procedure performed on me in the first four months I could have easily contributed it to the procedure itself instead of the natural course of my MS. Any short term results of ANY study should be looked at critically when it comes to MS due to the nature of MS itself.
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Postby lumpc1 » Sat May 22, 2010 8:21 am

hell with the control crap that is pharma talk for ' we can twist the #'s an delay treatment to insure that the appliance mfg's still make their money. I don't need no control to know that the strength comes back in my legs and I do not piss my pants after taking LDN, OPC factor or any other thing that straightens this thing out. cause like I heard somebody say, what they say about the mylen thing can not be right cause people that are getting big results are not regenerating nerves in a couple days. Lyon what are you still doing here spreading BS. get the heck outta here a shut your lies and pharma propaganda. the rest of the world is more free that the USA it is obvious to anyone paying attention so like I SAID f u
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