MR VENOGRAM OF THE CERVICAL VESSELS

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

MR VENOGRAM OF THE CERVICAL VESSELS

Postby stranger73 » Thu May 20, 2010 1:09 pm

My husband had the MR venogram of the cervical vessels a few days ago. His nurse called yesterday to let us now that everything is normal.
Today we received report, and i don't understand it. Can anybady
explain to me if this may mean narrowing of veins:
MRV of the brain is within the limits of normal.
No evidence of dural venous sinus thrombosis or AVM is noted.
MRV demonstrates normal flow signal within the intenal and external jugular veins.
Note is made of extrinsic compression of the internal jugular veins in the region of the lower neck and thoracic inlet secondary to hypertophied bilateral sernocleidomastoid muscles.
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Postby LR1234 » Thu May 20, 2010 1:31 pm

Sounds like the muscles are causing compression of the lower parts of the jugular vein which would suggest that they are narrowed and there probably is a blood flow issue.

(I am no dr so maybe a PM to Dr sclafani would be a good idea)
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Re: MR VENOGRAM OF THE CERVICAL VESSELS

Postby cheerleader » Thu May 20, 2010 4:48 pm

stranger73 wrote:Note is made of extrinsic compression of the internal jugular veins in the region of the lower neck and thoracic inlet secondary to hypertophied bilateral sernocleidomastoid muscles.



Bingo...There's the problem area....although the docs say it is "extrinsic"--meaning it doesn't matter. It may. It's been noted in a few patients with CCSVI. The jugulars are squeezed closed (compressed) by the sernocleiomastid muscles (hypertrophied means the muscles are enlarged), and blood flow is slowed, sometimes reversed. Perhaps a doppler of this area would show flow. A venogram would get right to it. Keep pursuing....
good luck,
cheer
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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mri cervical veins

Postby blossom » Thu May 20, 2010 11:45 pm

cheerleader, if it shows maybe muscle compression hindering these veins the article on ctos about the arteries being compressed i think by muscle and after ctos surgery to relieve that problem people with ms and other neurological problems improved . maybe when they did the surgery to take pressure off the artries there was also pressure taken off the veins and that is why it helped ms too. i'm no doctor. what do you think?
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Re: MR VENOGRAM OF THE CERVICAL VESSELS

Postby Mutley » Fri May 21, 2010 3:12 am

stranger73 wrote:Note is made of extrinsic compression of the internal jugular veins in the region of the lower neck and thoracic inlet secondary to hypertophied bilateral sernocleidomastoid muscles.


That's the same problem I have too.

I'm trying to find someone who can deal with it as it's not something a vascular specialist would normally deal with.

Anyone know of any specialists dealing with problems like these?
Mutley goes to Poland 1st symptom was Optic Neuritis in 1998, DX RRMS Jan 2001, DX SPMS 2007. Last EDSS by doctor 7.5
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Postby Nunzio » Fri May 21, 2010 4:32 am

Hi Stranger,
your husband had classical symptoms of cerebral or cerebellar thoracic outlet syndrome. This was described mainly on the arterial side, but of course the veins are much easier to compress.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10064369
But since MS takes years to develop, nobody made the connection, except a spanish doctor named Noda.
This is from one of my previous posts:
Nunzio wrote:I found this article and I almost fell off my chair.
Dr. Noda discovered 20 years ago a condition he named Cerebellar Thoracic Outlet Syndrome which is due to compression at the base of the neck with resulting decrease blood flow to the brain which he fixed surgically.
This is similar to CCSVI but instead of dilating the blood vessel he just relieved the compression.
Another major difference is that he thought it affected the artery.
In the paper you will see him performing an ultrasound of the neck area.
Maybe he was wrong and the compression was really affecting the venous return, but probably it doesn't matter; either way the brain was not receiving enough blood supply.
Original article in spanish: http://free-news.org/jacamp03.htm
English translation: http://translate.google.com/translate?j ... l=es&tl=en
I loved his conclusion which is identical to the CCSVI concept several years later: " And we think that the autoimmune phenomena that occur in some of these processes, particularly in multiple sclerosis-are secondary in nature and not the cause, as currently speculated."
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Postby Nunzio » Fri May 21, 2010 4:49 am

Cheerleader'
extrinsic means "from the outside" since it is a muscle from the outside of the vein compressing it.
So it does matter.
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