Reading Gray's Anatomy (not the TV show)

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Reading Gray's Anatomy (not the TV show)

Postby mshusband » Sat May 22, 2010 11:44 am

I don't know how anybody - let alone a medical professional ... could really take a minute to understand CCSVI, go back and look at their anatomical books, read about what the Internal Jugular Veins do - where they take blood from - how they work and not make the connection.

If that's not more, I don't know how that same person couldn't do the same thing for the azygos vein.

Funny this man (Henry Gray) did all this and knew all this about the Human Body in the 1800s. Of course that's when people were curious, not outright dismissive.

I'm by no means a medical expert, the furthest I ever got was AP biology and some college level courses .... but to say the two CCSVI and MS are not in some way connected ... is an outright lie. An absolute outright lie.

I think someone should really take a printout of everything Drs Freedman, Khan, Miller, Colin Rose and anyone else are saying that dismiss it so quickly. (they don't present opposing viewpoints, they outright dismiss it). Then bring it back to them 5 to 10 years from now ...

My guess is by then the rules, and theory behind MS will have changed.

Of course by then they will probably have retired and not care ... but that's not the point ...

Luckily with the internet, it's all out there. It will be able to be found in 5 to 10 years. I hope THEY realize that.
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Postby blossom » Sat May 22, 2010 1:52 pm

mshusband, i agree, but it is sad that when medicine became more and more about profit and treating patients (not cureing them) it seems there is a pattern of greed and deception somewhere. look at dr. shelling, dr. nado with ctos and the others you mentioned. i'm sure there are way more good dr.'s that truely do want to help than there are ones like dr.freedman and others who seems that he is a little p---ed off that it is raining on their parade. really, if he and others put their knowledge with stem cells to use i think some like myself will still be looking at stem cells once ccsvi is treated ms is stopped,my body heals what it can and i need repair. really they know enough that we all should be able to go get tested properly and treated if we choose to.
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Postby oreo » Sat May 22, 2010 3:48 pm

Fair enough mshusband, why don't we do just what you suggest.

"The veins of the neck, which return the blood from the head and face, are: the
External Jugular,
Anterior Jugular,
Posterior External Jugular,
Internal Jugular,
Vertebral."

"The Internal Jugular Vein collects the blood from the interior of the cranium, from the superficial parts of the face and from the neck. It runs down the side of the neck ... and at the root of the neck unites with the subclavian vein to form the innominate vein"

"Veins of the Upper Extremity and Thorax

The veins of the Upper Extremity are divided into two sets, superficial and deep.
The Deep Veins of the Upper Extremity follow the course of the arteries, forming their venae comites.
The Azygos Veins connect together the superior and inferior venae cavae, taking the place of those vessels in that part of the chest occupied by the heart."

It should be noted that when Gray said the cranium, he meant the skull bones, not the brain. The Azygos is nowhere near the brain.

The veins that I suspect Gray would most associate with MS if he were alive today would be the Cerebral Veins: Superficial Cerebral, Superior Cerebral, Median Cerebral, Inferior Cerebral, Deep Cerebral (venae Galeni), vena corporis strati, choroid vein, Basilar vein and Cerebellar vein. These are the veins which actually serve the brain proper.

All quotes from: Gray's Anatomy - Revised American from the 15th English edition.
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Postby mshusband » Sat May 22, 2010 4:01 pm

MS doesn't just impact the brain. There is spinal involvement ... hence the Azygos.

Also, yes the veins you mention are correct.

But say - when laying down - blood is to supposed to flow from the head through the internal jugular veins. Agree?

What if they don't open up properly or enough to let all the blood flow through? Then what happens? It puts pressure on the other veins, or causes reflux back into the CNS ... which causes what? Blood to breach the BBB ... and leads to ... MS?

Sounds logical to me ...

Same goes for the azygos ... in terms of the spine.

Content yet?
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Postby blossom » Sat May 22, 2010 4:20 pm

right ms husband, ms does not effect the brain only. i can't even pretend to know the names of all these veins. you guys are good. but, in my case with ppms i have one lesion on the brain and that is questionable because of the type of lesion. yet, for all these yrs. i'm told i have ms. since then i have read that ppms is known not to have the lesions on the brain as much.
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