smoking and ccsvi

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Postby L » Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:34 pm

Johnson wrote:Who will I be if I don't smoke?


I thought just the same thing!! Glad you're reading the book though. I do so hope it works for you, I bet it does. I think I owe him my life, Allen Carr, smoking was making life so as I couldn't get anything done, I always felt so run down and awful.
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Re: smoking and ccsvi

Postby NHE » Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:02 am

Johnson wrote:The carbon monoxide in the smoke does displace oxygen, which adds to our hypoxia, it does mess with the endothelium and NO too.


Not only does carbon monoxide (CO) "displace oxygen," but it also binds to hemoglobin with 200 times the affinity that carbon dioxide (CO2) does. This is because CO is a shorter molecule than CO2 and fits exceedingly well into the hemoglobin binding site. In essence, carbon monoxide poisoning is asphyxiation. Since CO binds so tightly to hemoglobin, the hemoglobin just can't get rid of it in order to pick up some O2 as the blood goes through the lungs.

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Re: smoking and ccsvi

Postby Johnson » Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:11 am

NHE wrote:
Johnson wrote:The carbon monoxide in the smoke does displace oxygen, which adds to our hypoxia, it does mess with the endothelium and NO too.


Not only does carbon monoxide (CO) "displace oxygen," but it also binds to hemoglobin with 200 times the affinity that carbon dioxide (CO2) does. This is because CO is a shorter molecule than CO2 and fits exceedingly well into the hemoglobin binding site. In essence, carbon monoxide poisoning is asphyxiation. Since CO binds so tightly to hemoglobin, the hemoglobin just can't get rid of it in order to pick up some O2 as the blood goes through the lungs.

NHE
And that is such a better reason not to smoke than bad teeth, bad breath, cancer, emphysema, etc. It gives me a great idea for a smoking cessation advert.
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Postby Bethr » Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:44 am

I'm just reading Alan Carrs book too :D
Stopping smoking is the next thing on my "to do" list.
I've managed to get my high iron levels down to low levels through phlebotomy, but my hemoglobin is still high. I've figured out that's the smoking effect.
When CO binds to hemoglobin your blood lacks oxygen as has been said. Your body compensates for this by producing more hemoglobin. Mine is sitting at around 155-165 (top limit for ladies 155).
Phlebotomy (blood letting) is still the standard treatment for high hemoglobin (secondary polycythemia). By lowering the bodies iron levels needed to make blood, less hemoglobin is made.
No wonder I feel better after a phlebotomy! It's like magic for me.
Heaps of energy, lovely mobile joints.

It's all making sense now, as to why I developed that brain lesion, when my iron levels were really high, and I was puffing away more as I didn't have the energy to do much else, frustrated over the fatigue etc!
I have dirty thick blood anyway, as I have no spleen (a blood filter).
I have lymphocytosis (high T-Cells), and leucocytosis (high WBC), that's normal for me because of the splenectomy (due to trauma as a child).

So I HAVE to give it away.
I'm really looking forward to it (that fits in with Alan Carrs philosophy).
And if I'm right, my hemoglobin levels will come down to normal and I'll be more "Oxygenated", I so hate that fatigue.
Love this research!
The results of this study will be out in November!
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Re: smoking and ccsvi

Postby NHE » Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:30 am

Johnson wrote:
NHE wrote:
Johnson wrote:The carbon monoxide in the smoke does displace oxygen, which adds to our hypoxia, it does mess with the endothelium and NO too.


Not only does carbon monoxide (CO) "displace oxygen," but it also binds to hemoglobin with 200 times the affinity that carbon dioxide (CO2) does. This is because CO is a shorter molecule than CO2 and fits exceedingly well into the hemoglobin binding site. In essence, carbon monoxide poisoning is asphyxiation. Since CO binds so tightly to hemoglobin, the hemoglobin just can't get rid of it in order to pick up some O2 as the blood goes through the lungs.

NHE
And that is such a better reason not to smoke than bad teeth, bad breath, cancer, emphysema, etc. It gives me a great idea for a smoking cessation advert.


Cigarettes are manufactured to be as addictive as possible. Ammonia, yes, the same stuff you clean your bathroom with, is added to cigarettes to make the nicotine enter your bloodstream faster to give you a bigger "hit". Licorice is also added since it acts as a bronchodilater when it is burned allowing the smoke to get deeper into your lungs. But this is just the icing on the cake. There are 600 additives put into cigarettes which tobacco company lobbyists have assured that really don't need to know about. :roll: Even the filters are poison. Phthalates are endocrine disrupters. This means that they interfere with the normal functioning of hormones, the endocrine system. Phthalates are the plasticizing agents which are added to plastics to make them soft and flexible. In reading the book "Chasing Molecules: Poisonous Products, Human Health, and the Promise of Green Chemistry" by Elizabeth Grossman I discovered that one of the most potent and toxic endocrine disrupting phthalates* is added to cigarette filters.

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* this phthalate is DMEP also known as dimethoxyethyl phthalate.
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Postby Johnson » Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:53 am

I had a most interesting, and mind-bending Doctor appointment today. I saw a Doctor who is looking at L-form bacteria as a cause of many auto-immune disorders. He likes Zamboni's hypothesis, but has the same question that I do - what causes the stenoses? I will post on all of that once I have some brain power again, and have some experience with his protocol (I start tomorrow), but my real point, pertinent to the subject...

He advised me to not stop smoking right now, that it was to my benefit, that it dampens immune response and mitigates Herxeimer reactions. Yes, I was surprised by a Doctor telling me that my nicotine curse was actually good for me right now. He explained about apoptosis (programmed cell death); that in cancer, there is no apoptosis, but in "MS", the cell death is not properly achieved, and instead of cells breaking down into constituent parts as is normal, the whole cell suffers injury and dies at once, and confuses the innate immune system. It ties in with what I alluded to before about Pw"MS" not getting cancers from smoking at the same rates as regular smokers, and immune suppression. It will take time to go through his protocol (perhaps a couple of years), and I was starting to get excited about quitting...

He also said a few other very surprising things, but the fog in my head hinders my recall. Some day, I will be able to write about it.

edit:
Some day, I will be able to write about it.
I hope!
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Postby gainsbourg » Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:38 pm

Don't forget that MS is basically an inflammatory disease of nerves in the CNS. The brain and spine are greedy for oxygen - like no other part of the human body.

Inflamed nerves, like any other nerve, need oxygen - in fact I believe they need an even better supply of oxygen if they are to have any chance of performing like healthy nerves. They also need a good supply of all the nutrients that are provided by blood in order for nerve metabolism to take place. Smoking may not always kill, but it always prevents the proper delivery of this oxygen to the CNS.

Other vascular problems (such as the poor venous flow in CCSVI) can have the same effect of reducing the amount of oxygen delivered to the nerves in the CNS. Maybe fixing veins helps with MS because it simply increases the delivery of nutrients, particularly oxygen, to the brain.

Could CCSVI start in the first place because the vascular system in the CNS is put under strain in an attempt to deliver more blood (i.e. more oxygen than usual) to nerve tissue inflamed by MS?

Nicotine causes blood vessels to narrow - so gradually less and less oxygen. Coronary arteries become blocked with fat (smokers are six times more likely to die of a heart attack). Even a single cigarette reduces oxygen flow to the brain for 8 hours!

Still want one?

BTW I also think the oxygen link is why so many with MS benefit from hyperbaric oxygen therapy.


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Postby Interrupted » Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:19 pm

L wrote:Tray reading the Allen Carr book, Interupted. 'The Easyway to Stop Smoking.'I was so sceptical for years but it really did work. It made giving up quite enjoyable, and I was hopelessly, hopelessly addicted.


I read it years ago, it did nothing for me. I read it again last year and it still did nothing. I found the same with hypnotherapy. I guess i'm not very impressionable, or maybe just stupid :lol:
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Postby L » Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:15 pm

Interrupted wrote:
L wrote:Tray reading the Allen Carr book, Interupted. 'The Easyway to Stop Smoking.'I was so sceptical for years but it really did work. It made giving up quite enjoyable, and I was hopelessly, hopelessly addicted.


I read it years ago, it did nothing for me. I read it again last year and it still did nothing. I found the same with hypnotherapy. I guess i'm not very impressionable, or maybe just stupid :lol:


I'm sorry to hear that. What a shame. I think it must be that you aren't impressionable enough, yes.
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Postby Interrupted » Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:15 pm

L wrote:I'm sorry to hear that. What a shame. I think it must be that you aren't impressionable enough, yes.


I think it's more to do with scare tactics, my brain automatically rebels. That and willpower. When I first became ill 10 years ago I had amazing willpower, to stop smoking, go on all kinds of strict diets etc. Then a couple of years ago it seemed like i'd just run out of energy for willpower to bother denying myself things when nothing seemed to work and fatigue overwhelmed. So I guess it's a cross between exhaustion and needing just one vice while facing adversity! lol

(That said, currently determined to quit cold turkey, failing that it'll be that Champy-Weetabix drug requested :roll: )
28/07/10, 04/10/10, 16/11/10 - Dopplers x3 Ireland, Poland, Scotland.
12/10/10 - 1st procedure, Poland. Symptoms worsened. No improvement.
Verdict: I urge caution + am taking a back seat watching research ATM.
13/02/12 - Started Wheldon ABX protocol.
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Postby Cece » Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:27 pm

Johnson wrote:He advised me to not stop smoking right now, that it was to my benefit, that it dampens immune response and mitigates Herxeimer reactions.

Huh, that's different! I've always heard that smoking is the worst thing an MSer can do, that it worsens the course of MS, despite the unmet expectation that it'd be beneficial because it dampens the immune system.
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Postby L » Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:54 am

Cece wrote:
Johnson wrote:He advised me to not stop smoking right now, that it was to my benefit, that it dampens immune response and mitigates Herxeimer reactions.

Huh, that's different! I've always heard that smoking is the worst thing an MSer can do, that it worsens the course of MS, despite the unmet expectation that it'd be beneficial because it dampens the immune system.


Yeah, I've seen a study where the nicotine component of smoking has been shown to benefit people with MS (benefits which seemed to be outweighed by the method of introducing nicotine into the body, or so other studies tell us.) Perhaps chewing tobacco is the best thing for people with MS who really can't give up..
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Postby gainsbourg » Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:56 am

The Alan Carr message is simple (even though he made it a bit complicated):

100% of the pleasure derived from smoking is the relief felt when coming out of nicotine withdrawal. In other words the drug itself is useless.

Nicotine, as a drug can give no pleasure whatsoever the first time you take it, i.e. the first ever cigarette. This is because it is a mild stimulant that can give no feeling of pleasure, euphoria, help with concentration, relief from stress or anything else. The first cigarette might make you light headed, but that is only because nicotine temporarily robs the brain of 40% of its usual oxygen. If you like that feeling simply hold your breath for 90 seconds.

However, nicotine is very quickly addictive, which means that if you persist with smoking regularly, you will almost certainly then go into nicotine withdrawal between cigarettes. Then you will experience a hell of a lot more pleasure than light headedness. Once addicted, the next time you have a cigarette 100% of the pleasure comes not from the stimulant action of the nicotine but from the pleasure of coming out of nicotine withdrawal - up to the level that non smokers are at all the time.

Still don't get it? Well, imagine buying a pair of tight shoes and finding that they give you so much pleasure when you kick them off, that you stop everything you are doing to savour the enormous pleasure and relief for 3-4 minutes. Having discovered this you decide to deliberately wear them every day so that you can enjoy the same pleasure of kicking them off (once they become unbearably tight) say 20 odd times a day. Doing that might give you pleasure to look forward to but it would be pointless. Smoking is like deliberately wearing those shoes every day - it is equally pointless.

Ask yourself why is it that people who smoke 40 cigarettes a day are not twice as relaxed as those who smoke 20 a day? Nicotine is the world's most useless drug and smoking is simply a trap. Giving up is an escape from the worst trap of your life.

Well that was a long post! Even if only one smoker quits after reading this it was worth it.8)


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Postby Algis » Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:10 am

That's a bit odd with a nickname like 'gainsbourg' 8) But maybe it's just a coincidence... Forgot your Gitanes?

"God is a Havana's smoker..."
(Original French 'Dieu est un fumeur de Havanes')

Written by Serge Gainsbourg
Performed by Serge Gainsbourg and Catherine Deneuve
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCbhB0rLf78

[but it is just a parenthesis]
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Postby Johnson » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:25 am

Algis wrote:That's a bit odd with a nickname like 'gainsbourg' 8) But maybe it's just a coincidence... Forgot your Gitanes?

"God is a Havana's smoker..."
(Original French 'Dieu est un fumeur de Havanes')

Written by Serge Gainsbourg
Performed by Serge Gainsbourg and Catherine Deneuve
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCbhB0rLf78

[but it is just a parenthesis]

That was funny, Algis.

I was listening to Serge Gainsbourg and Jane Birkin today. Catherine Deneuve is "smoking", though.

Gauloises anyone?

Bertrand Russell on smoking saving his life
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