smoking and ccsvi

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Postby cheerleader » Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:29 am

Johnson--whatever you decide, be well. 99% of the peer-reviewed studies show that cigarette smoking makes MS progression worse, but in the end, you're all that matters. You're the study. If chocolate brings an early death, than my days are numbered. We all have our ways of coping...Glad you found a new doctor you like.

Jeff got The Insider on Netflix last month....wow. He'd seen in, but Henry and I hadn't. If you haven't seen Russell Crowe's performance, it's a must view--and it's a true story about the tobacco industry.
take care-
cheer
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Postby Johnson » Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:22 am

Thanks cheer. I smiled before I even read your post - voice of reason, and all that. Grin.

I do not think smoking is harmless, and certainly not good for anyone, I just was so surprised by a doctor telling me not to worry about quitting. And I was just about to quit...
My name is not really Johnson. MSed up since 1993
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Postby gainsbourg » Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:47 am

Only just read those cheeky posts by Algie and Johnson!... All I can say is if you carry on smoking you might as well die laughing! Actually I threw all my Gauloises and Gitanes in the bin years ago....vive l'ironie!

Life would be so boring without rule breakers like Serge - but as you probably know he died when he was only 62. For him, smoking was a way of life, a hallmark for looking cool and being rebellious, no way was he going to stop smoking regardlesss of what his friends and family told him.

The figures are scary...they say that 1 in 4 smokers dies in middle age (age 35-69) That's a million smokers a year in the USA alone, enough to fill ten giant football stadiums every 52 weeks.

On the other hand, you might think, life's short - you could be be run over by a bus tomorrow so why not smoke? Life is full of dangers so why is everyone panicking? If you enjoy it why not take a risk? Think of the pleasure you'd have to miss out on if you quit, right?

Actually, non. There is no true pleasure from nicotine. It is one of nature's most ingenious con tricks, that's why she culls those who don't stop. The pleasure of smoking comes from coming out of nicotine withdrawal (that builds up between every cigarette) and returning to how you should normally feel. Honestly...that's 100% of the pleasure. In other words it is like standing on your head for the pleasure of occasionally being on your feet! Nicotine is the world's most useless drug to get hooked on (unless you count pain killers). In fact, being hooked on nicotine is like being hooked on Paracetamol - you become hooked on a useless drug.

Carry on smoking if you must, I for one am not "anti-smoker" - I believe in live and let live, we should respect people's choice. You will probably find a smoking comrade or two to laugh away the days with as you sit on death row. You may even get a repieve - or end up dying for nothing...just like Serge.
Last edited by gainsbourg on Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Algis » Sat Sep 25, 2010 7:21 am

It was just a parenthesis - I do not smoke :)

Peace 8)
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Postby sbr487 » Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:37 am

guys this might be a bit off topic - but I read today in a local news about genetic therapy by a Chinese company coming to India (for neck and dont remember the other one). I am sure things are looking a bit up so far as gene therapy is concerned ... I will post the link if I find one (I was it in hardcopy version) ...
A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it
- Max Planck
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Postby jphector » Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:35 pm

I guess I'm one of “those” very realistic people where to believe in something, I want proof and it's not simply word of mouth statements that qualify as proof (TONS of people selling multi-level products have tried to sell me stuff but, failed).

When it came to smoking, since I did smoke for a few years now, I thought “Why would I stop?”. No seriously, why would I? It hit me that all the “valid and true” reasons to quite did not seem to apply to me. I'll give you some examples:

Reason to Quite: It's bad for your health
Reason not to stop: I already have MS so, so what IF I may get worse, my symptoms are already getting worse

R to Q: It's expensive
R no to S: I can easily afford it and since I'm not really able to do anything else with my money...

R to Q: It smells
R not to S: I live alone

R to Q: It may cause problems in your mouth
R not to S: It “may” or, it “may not”, I'm willing to take the chance

So with all this, I honestly had no real desire to quit until I lined myself up yo get the CCSVI next week. My friend/Power of Attorney told me to stop because of the CCSVI as he has information from the net that tells you to stop in this case but, I looked and did not find any such information. Even with this, I will use this as a good reason to stop and as of today, I'm on the patch!
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Postby cheerleader » Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:50 pm

Hi jphector--
wishing you well with the patch and angioplasty.
Your friend might have found this regarding smoking from the Endothelial Health program at www.ccsvi.org

Smoking reduces nitric oxide in the blood vessels and causes an increase in ADMA, the modified amino acid which puts strain on the heart. Nicotine also causes vessels to narrow, so that less oxygen is delivered to the heart. Platelets become stickier, and therefore clot formation is increased. Additionally, smoking raises the level of carbon monoxide in the blood, which increases the risk of injury to endothelial cells 11

11-Kalliopi Karatzi, MSc, Christos Papamichael, MD, Emmanouil Karatzis, MD, Theodore G. Papaioannou, PhD, Paraskevi Th. Voidonikola, MD, John Lekakis, MD and Antonis Zampelas, PhD. Acute smoking induces endothelium dysfunction (2007). Journal of the American College of Nutrition, Vol. 26, No. 1, 10–15


take care-
cheer
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Postby HFogerty » Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:33 pm

BTW, do not know if it is true or not but I was told that Marlboro cigs contain a chocolate additive -sad, huh?
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Postby jphector » Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:12 pm

cheerleader,

Thanks for the bout of confidence! I just simply have still found it interesting that I have not heard of any one being turned away from the CCSVI because they smoked... hence why I hadn't. But since my friend (who is also my Power of Attorney) told me too, I'll listen to HIM and respect his wishes :)
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Re: smoking and ccsvi

Postby NHE » Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:17 am

HFogerty wrote:BTW, do not know if it is true or not but I was told that Marlboro cigs contain a chocolate additive -sad, huh?


Licorice and cocoa are added to cigarettes since when you burn them they act as bronchodilators. This action opposes the body's natural response and allows the smoke to get deep into the lungs. Ammonia is also added to cigarettes since it helps nicotine to be absorbed faster into the blood stream providing a bigger, more immediate hit of nicotine. These additives contribute to help make cigarettes as addictive as possible. If it wasn't highly addictive, why else would anyone knowingly ingest poison?

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Postby gainsbourg » Thu Nov 11, 2010 1:42 am

jphector,

You are buying into the myth that nicotine has any value whatsoever as a drug - but don't worry because virtually all smokers (and non smokers alike) buy into this myth. Even when the myth is explained most people cannot take it in because the notion that nicotine, although dangerous, has a positive effect is so deeply ingrained.

Have you ever asked yourself why smoking 20 cigarettes a day doesn't make you feel twice as good or relaxed as when you smoke 10? Or why smoking 40 a day doesn't make you twice as relaxed as when you smoke 20?....The truth is, people who smoke 40 are the most irritable, high blood pressured group of peope you will ever meet.

I remember smoking, and the huge pleasure I often got when I lit up - but did not realise that 100% of this pleasure came from relieving the withdrawal symptoms of nicotine which build up between each cigarette.

Yes - 100%. You see, you do not have to give up smoking to get the withdrawal, it starts to occur shortly after stubbing out each cigarette.

The very first cigarette of your life does nothing for you (drug wise) - there are no exceptions. You get plenty of nicotine at this time but nicotine is a mild stimulant drug that has no ability to relax or give you any kind of high the first time you take it. You can only get the pleasure or "hit" once you are hooked - like getting hooked on paracetemol.

Imagine wearing a pair of tight shoes that become unbearable to wear after an hour or so. Each time you kick them off you are speechless with relief and calm during the five odd minutes your body and mind recover from the trauma. Imagine deliberately wearing them for the pleasure of removing them 10 or 20 times a day! Deliberately smoking is like deliberately wearing those shoes for the pleasure of removing them at intervals throughout the day. I'm not "anti smoker". I believe in freedom of choice - if you want to smoke go ahead - but remember, it is just a hiding to nothing, like standing on your head for the pleasure of returning to your feet.

One in every 4 smokers dies in middle age - nature obviously does not want us to smoke this rubbish that the white man has only smoked since 1492. I do not believe the Native Americans went around smoking it as much as they tell us - they had no drug laws and smoked complex mixtures of all kinds of local herbs and drugs which were known only within each tribe. Some pipes relaxed you, others stimulated you, others gave you a different high - they were far more knowledgeable than we are about drugs. They used tobacco as an insecticide.


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Postby Perkele » Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:32 am

Tobacco smoking, but not Swedish snuff use, increases the risk of multiple sclerosis

Objective: The aim of this study was to estimate the influence of tobacco smoking and Swedish snuff use on the risk of developing multiple sclerosis (MS).

Methods: A population-based case-control study was performed in Sweden, using incident cases of MS (902 cases and 1,855 controls). A case was defined as a subject from the study base who had received a diagnosis of MS, and controls were randomly selected from the study base. The incidence of MS among smokers was compared with that of never-smokers. We also investigated whether the use of Swedish snuff had an impact on the risk of developing MS.

Results: Smokers of both sexes had an increased risk of developing MS (odds ratio [OR] 1.4, 95% confidence interval [CI] 1.2–1.7 for women, and OR 1.8, 95% CI 1.3–2.5 for men). The increased risk was apparent even among subjects who had previously smoked moderately (≤5 pack-years) prior to index, and the risk increased with increasing cumulative dose (p < 0.0001). The increased risk for MS associated with smoking remained up to 5 years after stopping smoking. In contrast, taking Swedish snuff for more than 15 years decreased the risk of developing MS (OR 0.3, 95% CI 0.1–0.8 ).

Conclusions: Smokers of both sexes run an increased risk of developing multiple sclerosis (MS), and the risk increases with cumulative dose of smoking. However, the use of Swedish snuff is not associated with elevated risk for MS, which may indicate that nicotine is not the substance responsible for the increased risk of developing MS among smokers.


http://www.neurology.org/content/73/9/696.abstract
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Postby jphector » Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:06 am

gainsbourg,

I am buying into a myth? I fear you may be slightly misunderstanding me here. I was still smoking (as today is day 2 of being the patch!) simply because it brought me pleasure to smoke at the present time. While thinking of all the negative possibilities down the road that might happen, again I would think to myself those might happen and they may not. The only sure 100% fact here is that I would enjoy a cigarette at the present time. So I went with that.

I have never asked myself that question but, now that you brought it up, it would seem evident that a drug (which ever one it is) will bring you the maximum pleasure when you hit that 100% Taking more of the drug will not make you feel 110% but rather will make you feel worse.

But thank for your input :)
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Postby BadCopy » Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:57 pm

I didnt read all the posts so forgive me if it's been mentioned. Try an electronic smoke. All the nicotene 0 carbon monoxide.

As a lot of us smokers or ex-smokers know, after a smoke we get dizzy, weak, stupid...........ok maybe the last one is just me. I have read a couple articles in the past looking at carbon monoxide and its ability to cross the Blood Brain Barrier. When I say this it made sense right away. Have a smoke=CO to the brain.

In my job I used to go to homes that had their CO alarm go off and clear the home for the customer. I could tell within a couple minutes if there was CO in the air or not(without my tester). I would feel a little weaker, less balance, walking ........So it became obvious to me that the BBB was definitivly involved with MS.

You don't always need studies :)
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Postby canadianguy340 » Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:06 am

I find this topic very interesting where CCSVI is concerned. Ive been a smoker for over 20 years and have stopped here and there last was May 2009 but started again here few months ago dumb!! That said last few months noticed fingers mainly left hand have been feeling kinda knumb. Im flying to Sandiego next week for treatment and plan is to stop smoking for good asap. Went 14 months or so but fell back into the philphy habit. Not sure why I started again kinda didn't really feel any better not smoking but now I believe there was things that got better and didn't notice. Quite certain when In Sandiego will be told you must stop.:-)
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