smoking and ccsvi

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

smoking and ccsvi

Postby sofia » Mon May 31, 2010 5:35 am

am i the only one, that smoke on here. if not what sort of advice have you been given, have you been told to give up?
dr. petrov said it didnæt really matter, and that i only smoked so little, that it wouldn't have much impact.
well it has turned out that i smoke a little bit more now then before, probably summer and nice wether, sat in the garden all ready not having to go out on front doorstep in the rain, as i normally do.
am i the only ms patient that smoke here :oops:
i stopped for 4 years when i had my little ones, but then it was all the steroids with all my attacks last years, anything resembeling will power just went out the door, gained weight and started smoking, was flying high for a whole month. when i finally gave up again, i was having a new attack and even more steroids, since then i just gave up stoppoing.

but big question is, has it got any impact on ccsvi, bloodflow, veines, blood viscosity and all this. that would be a very good motivator.
<div>I have lived with ms for 8 years. The last year has been hell, I've gone from shite to even worse every single month, until my liberation in May. </div>
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Postby cheerleader » Mon May 31, 2010 7:10 am

Hi Sofia-
Hope you can find a way to kick the habit. Smoking is linked to endothelial disfunction, vasoconstriction, and faster MS disease progression- just not good on any level- yes, it affects bloodflow by causing nitric oxide disruption.

Smoking and Disease Progression in Multiple Sclerosis
Brian C. Healy, PhD; Eman N. Ali, MD; Charles R. G. Guttmann, MD; Tanuja Chitnis, MD; Bonnie I. Glanz, PhD; Guy Buckle, MD; Maria Houtchens, MD; Lynn Stazzone, MSN, NP; Jennifer Moodie, MD; Annika M. Berger, MD; Yang Duan, MD; Rohit Bakshi, MD; Samia Khoury, MD; Howard Weiner, MD; Alberto Ascherio, MD
Arch Neurol. 2009;66(7):858-864.

Background Although cigarette smokers are at increased risk of developing multiple sclerosis (MS), the effect of smoking on the progression of MS remains uncertain.

Objective To establish the relationship between cigarette smoking and progression of MS using clinical and magnetic resonance imaging outcomes

Design Cross-sectional survey and longitudinal follow-up for a mean of 3.29 years, ending January 15, 2008.

Setting Partners MS Center (Boston, Massachusetts), a referral center for patients with MS.

Patients Study participants included 1465 patients with clinically definite MS (25.1% men), with mean (range) age at baseline of 42.0 (16-75) years and disease duration of 9.4 (0-50.4) years. Seven hundred eighty patients (53.2%) were never-smokers, 428 (29.2%) were ex-smokers, and 257 (17.5%) were current smokers.

Main Outcome Measures Smoking groups were compared for baseline clinical and magnetic resonance imaging characteristics as well as progression and sustained progression on the Expanded Disability Status Scale at 2 and 5 years and time to disease conversion to secondary progressive MS. In addition, the rate of on-study change in the brain parenchymal fraction and T2 hyperintense lesion volume were compared.

Results: Current smokers had significantly worse disease at baseline than never-smokers in terms of Expanded Disability Status Scale score (adjusted P < .001), Multiple Sclerosis Severity Score (adjusted P < .001), and brain parenchymal fraction (adjusted P = .004). In addition, current smokers were significantly more likely to have primary progressive MS (adjusted odds ratio, 2.41; 95% confidence interval, 1.09-5.34). At longitudinal analyses, MS in smokers progressed from relapsing-remitting to secondary progressive disease faster than in never-smokers (hazard ratio for current smokers vs never-smokers, 2.50; 95% confidence interval, 1.42-4.41). In addition, in smokers, the T2-weighted lesion volume increased faster (P = .02), and brain parenchymal fraction decreased faster (P = .02).

Conclusion Our data suggest that cigarette smoke has an adverse influence on the progression of MS and accelerates conversion from a relapsing-remitting to a progressive course.


http://www.thisisms.com/ftopict-7674-cigarette.html
take care-
cheer
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Postby jr5646 » Mon May 31, 2010 7:30 am

Don't feel bad Sofia, I smoke too... We all know it's a terrible habit, but unfortunately a serious addiction and extremely difficult to break. It does aggrrevate MS as it a vasco constrictor - well, in me anyway.. Every Dr. will tell you to quit.. That's a given.

When I smoke outside in a busy area, I'm looked upon these days as if I have leprosy lol... and it doesn't help that I gimp like a fool either.. haha

Anyway, they have been working on a "quit smoking" vaccination for a few years now.. Check this out!

http://www.nabi.com/pipeline/pipeline.php?id=3

So maybe we can all quit some day :) I'd much rather buy lunch with that $6 pack a day habit instead anyway.
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Postby mmcc » Mon May 31, 2010 7:46 am

I smoke too and have smoked for 40 years. I quit once for 9 months, gained 40 lbs and was miserable.

I am going to try again sometime soon when my stress levels are a little lower - I think I will try the Chantrix - seems to have the best success rate.

But, when I first got MS I specifically didn't quit. It progressed rapidly and I figured if I was going to become a vegetable, why make myself miserable in the time I had left. Well, its 11 years later and thanks to a variety of drugs I still have a good quality of life. Probaly time to quit,

BTW, the study quoted contradicts several prior studies which showed no relationship between smoking and MS. And what the study does not deal with is cause and effect. For example do smokers (addictive personalities) have something in their makeup which makes them more likely to be hit harder by MS?

Where are the studies about the relationship between all the other bad habits people have and MS - overweight, drinking, etc.? There were a bunch of studies about smoking and MS before one finally found a link which the others didn't.

There is a tendency to want to blame people for their disease. Sometimes that may be appropriate but not always. If we did such and such we would not have MS. Yet, there is no question that MS is tied to genetics and to where one lives before age 16. Now there is some research that the latitude issue may be due to vitamin D insufficiency, People raised in the tropics smoke too, yet the MS rate is almost zero.

I am really tired of trying to blame the evils of the world on smoking.

Yes, it is an evil habit, and yes I wish I had never started, but....
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Postby L » Mon May 31, 2010 8:54 am

I was hopelessly addicted for a long, long time. I'd vow to give up every single day but fail at around 7pm. Every day. It sapped all my energy and made me feel awful.

Now and again, an acquaintance would recommend the book 'The Easyway To Give Up Smoking' by Allen Carr but I ignored the advice for years. And then I saw it in a bookshop. On the back it said that reading it 'would be like pressing a magic button.' Could it be true? I bought it, read it, and gave up. It really was easy! In fact, it was quite enjoyable. And I never felt like I had given up a thing.

It brainwashes you, it doesn't scare you and it really works. Since I read it, I recommended it to four other people. They were all heavy smokers like I once was, and they have all given up. It's true! It's like pressing a magic button! So if you want to give up, get that book, it's translated into pretty much every language known too..
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Postby skincoll » Mon May 31, 2010 9:20 am

I smoked a lot of cannabis and many cigarettes daily for 15 years, even after diagnosis, but have since given up. My advice is give up of course. I read that motor function is impaired for 30 mins in people with MS after smoking a cigarette. And I began to see my sensory and balance problems worsen after a ciggy, so I had to agree from experience.

I know how enjoyable smoking can be, and how hard it is to quit, but recovering from MS requires full fitness to allow the body to return to a state of balance. If it's dealing with smoking it's going to struggle.

But hey, I'm not preaching here. I was still abusing my body with various substances long after diagnosis. You could say I've seen the light...

Good luck.
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smoking

Postby crocky » Mon May 31, 2010 12:45 pm

Until I heard about ccsvi I was a very dedicated smoker! Smoking was one of my favourite hobbies, and not a lot would part me from my cigs. Even a breast cancer diagnosis in 2003 didn't stop me.
I know/knew then also, that smoking made my ms worse, particularly for the first 5 mins after a cig - my balance would get much worse, hands and feet colder/lack of circulation.
So once I'd had my appointment with Dr Simka arranged, back in December last year, I quit. No it hasn't been easy. However, I've traded my smoking habit for a 'vaping' one, and use my e-cigarette just as I used cigs before.
Although it uses nicotine, it doesn't seem to give me bad circulation/balance problems, and certainly doesn't stink like cigs do.
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Postby sofia » Mon May 31, 2010 2:57 pm

Thanks guys. Will work on stopping again now when I'm feeling better. Not easy to give up the comforts when life is shite.
<div>I have lived with ms for 8 years. The last year has been hell, I've gone from shite to even worse every single month, until my liberation in May. </div>
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Postby newlywed4ever » Mon May 31, 2010 7:42 pm

Sofia - I hear ya! I've been "quitting" for a couple years now...currently, my last cig was Dec 2, 2009 BUTI'm addicted now to the nicotine gum :(
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You are NOT a solo smoker!

Postby mandamurr81 » Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:48 pm

I have been smoking for 13 years. I was dx with MS 2 years ago. Until I was dx, I never really thought seriously about quitting. Afterwards I thought about it a bit in during the initial shock, then forgot about it. My doctor and others would lecture me about quitting, and I would sheepishly nod and say "yeah, I know, I need to quit", but in my head I was thinking, 'nope, I don't wanna'.

Since the theory of CCSVI has become public, a lot of things have fallen into place for me. I have headaches and migraines that respond ONLY to triptans, which constrict blood vessels in the brain. I have symptoms of very poor circulation. Recently I have developed pain on the right side of my chest, and am due for a chest xray. When I first started birth control I have a pain in my calf bad enough to have me limping for a week. I was worried about a clot, but my DR. told me not to worry. Also, as a child my mother once told me that as a baby I had a heart murmur, but the DR. told her it was common and nothing to worry about. Also as a child, I had a couple episodes of fainting, and frequent severe nosebleeds.

I am now convinced that MS has a vascular element. Perhaps even that there are some among us that do not have MS at all. In my case a diagnoses was made solely on an MRI and reported medical history. My doctors, as far as I can tell, never even truly examined the MRI, but rather depended on the report of the technician, and statistics which indicate that the most LIKELY diagnosis is Multiple Sclerosis.

All of these facts suggest to me that a vascular problem may lie at the heart of my illness, and for this reason, I am now committed to try to quit smoking for the first time. So Sofia, you are not the only smoker! Wish me luck trying to quit :)
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Postby cheerleader » Mon Sep 20, 2010 1:31 pm

A new paper out from the Journal of Inflammation, discussing the implications of smoking within the paradigm of Dr. Zamboni's vascular research on CCSVI If smoking inhibits t-cells, it should help MS. Instead, it promotes MS progression. Within the vascular paradigm and understanding of nitric oxide and the endothelium, we can see why smoking is problematic for pwMS-


Indeed, this field of investigation is expanding rapidly, further clarification of the possible association or dissociation between MS and CCSVI is likely forthcoming. Smoking is reported to be significantly associated with lower limb venous insufficiency. The mechanisms leading to harmful effects of tobacco on the venous system are still not elucidated.127 However, cigarette smoking is believed to be a major factor in hypoxia through carbon monoxide and NO fixation in hemoglobin.127,128 It has been hypothesized that the effect of hypoxia on the functional state of the endothelium can be the starting point of a cascade of events leading to disorganization of the vessel typical of venous pathologies such as varicose veins. Hypoxia activates the endothelial cells, resulting in the production of proinflammatory factors within the vessel wall, increased capillary permeability and local inflammatory changes.129 Endothelial basal lamina has been found thickened in heavy smokers and the thickening contained fibronectin.130 It has also been reported that heavy smokers have impaired release of endothelium-derived relaxing factor in response to bradykinin and calcium ionophore. This impairment may increase vasomotor tone and smooth muscle proliferation in veins.131 Even the implication of a developmental origin in venous anomalies seen in CCSVI132 does not exclude the possibility that smoking could contribute to the venous flow abnormalities. It can thus be speculated that smoking may be related to venous MS hypothesis through harmful effects of tobacco on the venous system and its hemodynamics.


http://www.dovepress.com/getfile.php?fileID=7571

Cheer
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Postby Interrupted » Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:34 pm

Guilty, it sounds so ridiculous but MS in a way made me start again after 2 years stopping many years ago. It's totally an anxiety and boredom thing.

This evening I have received the dates for my procedure in Katowice in 3 weeks, and so tomorrow it'll be me+e-cigarette+a very grumpy mood! lol
Still, I think getting the actual date has been the kick up the bumsicle that I need. Time to cut the 15 year habit for good. :twisted: <- that face is pure determination!
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Postby L » Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:11 pm

Interrupted wrote:Guilty, it sounds so ridiculous but MS in a way made me start again after 2 years stopping many years ago. It's totally an anxiety and boredom thing.

This evening I have received the dates for my procedure in Katowice in 3 weeks, and so tomorrow it'll be me+e-cigarette+a very grumpy mood! lol
Still, I think getting the actual date has been the kick up the bumsicle that I need. Time to cut the 15 year habit for good. :twisted: <- that face is pure determination!


Tray reading the Allen Carr book, Interupted. 'The Easyway to Stop Smoking.'I was so sceptical for years but it really did work. It made giving up quite enjoyable, and I was hopelessly, hopelessly addicted.
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Postby Johnson » Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:42 pm

I smoke like a fiend, and have for 35 years. I have always joked that it is good for "MS" because it inhibits the immune system, but I know that is not necessarily the case... Interestingly, I have read that Pw"MS" who smoke do not have the same rates of lung cancer, emphysema, etc. that regular smokers do. I'm not sure how valid that is. My lungs are in relatively good shape though.

As far as contributing to progression, I am not so sure of that (in my case). I have been afflicted (with "MS") for almost 18 tears (Freudian typo - YEARS), and really do not think that smoking made it accelerate, not to say that it is harmless! The carbon monoxide in the smoke does displace oxygen, which adds to our hypoxia, it does mess with the endothelium and NO too. I smoke a lot of pot, and clinical studies have shown that to stimulate white matter nerve growth, and all of my lesions are in the white matter, so perhaps that is why I have "done well" for 18 years. My lesions do have a habit of disappearing...

I took L's advice from an earlier post and bought Allan Carr's book. I am reading it ever-so slowly because I can tell that I will not smoke by the time I am finished it, and that freaks me out. Who will I be if I don't smoke? Jeepers, I might be Johnson.
My name is not really Johnson. MSed up since 1993
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Postby Lyon » Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:15 pm

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Last edited by Lyon on Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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