How can a 50 year old have CCSVI when theyve only had MS for

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

How can a 50 year old have CCSVI when theyve only had MS for

Postby adamt » Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:52 am

i do have strong hopes that CCSVI is what causes MS, but i cant understand how anyone over 21 can then develop MS, even as late as 50-60, and still have CCSVI?

They say you stop growing when your 21, and something like veins dont change after being a few years old, i would of thought.

So how can someone about 50-60 have CCSVI but only had MS / Symptoms for 5 years??

Surely if you have CCSVI there would be autoimmune damage from teenage years onwards, maybe as younmg as 10?

I was diagnosed with MS at 17 but noticed syptoms at 15.
Getting tested for CCSVI this month.
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Postby mshusband » Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:42 pm

AdamT ...

CCSVI develops into MS when you have 3 factors:

1. Vein occlusion
2. Time
3. severity of stenosis

Therefore if you only have moderate of light stenosis in any vein, let's assume your vein will be draining normally 90% of the blood therein. The 10% in reflux OVER TIME ... will lead to MS.

That's my take on it.

(see the overall thoughts in the thread about "what to look for in placebo controlled studies" - I think I explain myself better in there - just don't have time to do the whole thing again).

The other thought is with trauma it can onset later (or earlier) in life.

Those people probably wouldn't have developed MS without the trauma ... and my guess is they're going to be less likely to have CCSVI as well (hence eventually some people with MS will be found not to have CCSVI ... and they are likely the trauma patients that are bleeding into their CNS from that event not CCSVI).

Hope that helps ...
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Postby whyRwehere » Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:49 pm

Hi Adam,
I think the damage just slowly builds up. When I first met my husband, I noticed little things, but just thought it wasn't important. So he limped a little...one leg shorter? So he confused easily when tired, who doesn't? So he takes forever to pee...I'm no specialist on that subject. It was only 10 years later, when he was falling over, that things could not be ignored....even then we were thinking it was just a trapped nerve.
Of course, there will be people who suffer from an injury, who may have been well, then started to demonstrate with problems afterwards.....or people who could cope with the bad flow, but not when a virus or bacteria took hold as well. Perhaps one's youth helps to heal faster than the damage takes place, up to a certain age. There are so many possible reasons for late presentation.
Anyhow, I look forward to hearing about your test results.
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Postby Motiak » Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:53 pm

This thread http://www.thisisms.com/ftopict-12135.html seems to do a good job of answering the question.
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Postby Cece » Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:04 pm

Like what has already been said...the damage from CCSVI-related reflux and blood deposition in the brain is chronic. It does long, slow damage.

There was also an interesting post recently, about another disorder involving internal jugular reflux, and it was stated that internal jugular reflux worsens as we age...so that might push the damage past the tipping point.

It is possible too that in the fifty years, some MS symptoms came and went but were never really big enough to seek treatment for it?
"However, the truth in science ultimately emerges, although sometimes it takes a very long time," Arthur Silverstein, Autoimmunity: A History of the Early Struggle for Recognition
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Postby adamt » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:21 pm

thanks everyone for your replies, i guess it does make sense now,

And thanks WhyRweHere, you know why :)


As i was dx with MS at 17 and had symptoms as young as 15 (albeit very slight symptoms) would this suggest if i have CCSVI, that it is likely to be a VERY blocked vein/s?

If it is very blocked, would this mean once im liberated i will see a greater improvement in symptoms (mobility) compared to those who has less severe stenosis?
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Postby Cece » Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:09 pm

I've also had MS symptoms from as young as age 9, I am not sure what it means for the extent of the CCSVI.

Going off of the Buffalo data, it looks like the more progressed a person is, the worse the CCSVI.

People with RRMS and SPMS are seeing more in the way of improvements, but nothing is for sure.
"However, the truth in science ultimately emerges, although sometimes it takes a very long time," Arthur Silverstein, Autoimmunity: A History of the Early Struggle for Recognition
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Postby adamt » Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:20 am

thanks Cece,.
does anyone else know?
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MS dx at 50

Postby eveable » Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:16 pm

I was also diagnosed with MS at 50. I knew before diagnosis that it had been a long evolution. When I was in my 20's, if I got a sunburn my right foot would swell up. In my 30's my right foot was pinker than my left. In my 40's, my right foot was noticeably redder than my left. In my 50's, which I am still in and dx with MS, my right foot is purple. My doctor cannot find a pulse in my right foot and though I have had lots of dopplers there is no stenosis in the blood vessels to my right foot. Guess which side is affected? The right.
I had a doppler for CCSVI. There is stenosis in my interior jugulars, both sides and now my thyroid glands look like they are packing it in. This is slow death by iron toxicity. I am on a list for Brooklyn.
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