Aspirin for MS study at Mayo Clinic?

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Aspirin for MS study at Mayo Clinic?

Postby Shueywho » Sat Jun 12, 2010 4:59 pm

I found this tonight and thought it was interesting. It's about studying a high dose aspirin treatment for relief from fatigue.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/medicalprofs/ ... tigue.html


Thoughts anyone?

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Postby patientx » Sat Jun 12, 2010 5:19 pm

I believe this study has been going on for some time:

http://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/ ... rin&rank=1

It looks like this was updated in February of this year, so it must still be active. They may have some results by now.
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Postby ms2009 » Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:15 pm

This study might support the CCSVI theory because aspirin makes the blood thinner so the blockage will be less intrusive.

I wonder whether neuros will go for such a conclusion.
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Postby ozarkcanoer » Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:28 pm

Wouldn't it be lovely if this works !!! Maybe it will kill headaches and fatigue at the same time. For me my fatigue seems often to be associated with severe headaches.

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Postby Shueywho » Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:40 pm

I think it could be linked to ccsvi. There is so much to learn and it seems the most difficult part is just putting the pieces together from all the different sources.

Thanks for the follow-up, I don't want to read too much into this, but like ozarkcanoer said, "wouldn't it be lovely if this works". Could simple treatments be so easily overlooked?
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Postby blossom » Sat Jun 12, 2010 8:00 pm

hughes syndrome (sticky blood) which can mimmick ms is treated with asparin or blood thinners. still if your pipes are screwed up i don't see how it would work as well.
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Postby Bubba » Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:40 am

ozarkcanoer wrote:Wouldn't it be lovely if this works !!! Maybe it will kill headaches and fatigue at the same time. For me my fatigue seems often to be associated with severe headaches.

ozarkcanoer


After reding about stenosis and ccsvi, I thought to myself???
"Just thin the blood"
So I started taking generic store brand asprin (325mg) (x3) everyday. After about two weeks I noticed my fatigue and brain fog was not rearing its ugly head. So, I have continues on the asprin therapy, been six months now. Where I used to get brain fog 3-4 times a week and TOTAL BODY EXHAUSTION everyday, they are both virtually non existant for me now. I would estimate that in the past six months I have experienced fatigue twice and no brain fog. I am convinced it is the asprin.
w/m 44
The problem comes with the decision of weighing the unknown with the unknown.
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Postby Motiak » Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:15 am

Didn't Putnam try using blood thinners on patients back in the early-mid 1900s when he was convinced that MS was a vascular issue and it didn't work? I guess he was trying to treat the disease more than the fatigue though, so there could be some more success in these attempts.
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Words of caution

Postby Nunzio » Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:29 pm

drsclafani wrote:
the theory is that venous insufficiency results in loosening of tight juctions between the endothelial cells (inner lining cells) that lead to leakage of red blood cells into the brain. red blood cells are full of iron (hemoglobin). the hemoglobin breaks down into hemodiserin and then breaks down further into iron

there are other causes of iron in the brain, but the pattern seen on SWI imaging suggests a venous origin of the iron

So according to CCSVI theory, if you take aspirine you will get more red blood cells into your brain and get worse in the long run.
Just be careful and do not "assume".
Everybody here brings happiness, somebody by coming,others by leaving.  PPMS since 2000<br />
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Re: Words of caution

Postby AlmostClever » Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:43 pm

Nunzio wrote:
drsclafani wrote:
the theory is that venous insufficiency results in loosening of tight juctions between the endothelial cells (inner lining cells) that lead to leakage of red blood cells into the brain. red blood cells are full of iron (hemoglobin). the hemoglobin breaks down into hemodiserin and then breaks down further into iron

there are other causes of iron in the brain, but the pattern seen on SWI imaging suggests a venous origin of the iron

So according to CCSVI theory, if you take aspirine you will get more red blood cells into your brain and get worse in the long run.
Just be careful and do not "assume".


Or would it be reverse?

The blood would be moving faster and not have time for the red blood cells to leak through the lining?

I envision pouring water down a window screen...the slower you pour or the less steep the incline, the more the water leaks through the screen. Pour faster or increase incline and less water will leak through. Sound plausible?
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Al Einstein
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Postby Nunzio » Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:08 am

Except aspirin never claimed to make your blood move faster. It just prevent blood cloth. You can check that by doing a doppler of your jugular vein before and after taking aspirin. To make your blood move faster, but only through small vessels you need to use a medicine like pentoxyfilline which is used by people with peripheral artery disease for that reason.
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Postby AlmostClever » Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:53 am

Nunzio wrote:Except aspirin never claimed to make your blood move faster. It just prevent blood cloth. You can check that by doing a doppler of your jugular vein before and after taking aspirin. To make your blood move faster, but only through small vessels you need to use a medicine like pentoxyfilline which is used by people with peripheral artery disease for that reason.


Maybe I shouldn't have said "faster"? I was thinking more on the viscosity side of it...

But actually, upon more contemplation, I might have to agree with you, Nunzio.

I'll present my margarita example after I get back from work!

Have a nice day!!!

A/C
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Al Einstein
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Postby AMcG » Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:15 am

I think the effect could be related to speed of flow.

The cause of CCSVI is in the jugulars but the effect is to send blood back to the veins draining the structures at the base of the brain. Zamboni (2008) detected reflux in the deep-middle-cerebral-veins (DMCVs). The DMCVs have particularly slow blood flow so refluxing blood would have a greater effect here than in other veins. Making the blood flow faster here might not have much effect on the overall blood flow thru the brain but could have a much greater local effect. I am not claiming that is what is in fact happening. It just sounds plausible to me.

I would like to read exactly what Putnam did in the thirties but I have never found a copy of the study. Anyone know where I could get one?
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Postby AlmostClever » Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:58 am

AlmostClever wrote:
Nunzio wrote:
I'll present my margarita example after I get back from work!


A/C


OK, work over...

Let's say you have a fresh, frozen margarita.

The straw you're using has a small hole in it.

How mch margarita comes out of the hole while you are drinking will depend on how much pressure you suck with and how melted the margarita is, and size of the hole.

This is where the fluid dynamics buggers me - under what conditions would the least amount of fluid come out of the hole (ie. red blood cells cross thru the BBB)?



Also, I took 500mg aspirin yesterday morning and another today.

I noticed significant improvement when driving in my right leg when pushing the pedals, switching back and forth. I even walked a little more than usual, and over grass which I try not to do because of the unstable footing.

QUESTIONS:

Could some of the dramatic effects we're seeing be because of the blood thinners and not the procedure at all?

Did Zamboni use blood thinners?

Are those who received angio only taking any blood thinners?


Cheers,

A/C
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Al Einstein
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Postby belsadie » Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:10 pm

I believe aspirin's anticoagulant properties come from its effect on an enzyme that causes the platelets to clump together[forming a clot] I think Aspirin can be advised whenever a 'foreign object' , like an artificial heart valve, hip prosthetic, stent, etc. to avoid clotting . I don't think viscosity,per se, is effected. ASA is not to be taken if any other anticoagulant therapy is administered,, unless ordered that way. Bleeding can be a side effect of that due to the bloods inability to effectively, plug up[clot] any areas of possible leakage into surrounding interstitial spaces [in a timely fashion].
Anticoags slow the clotting time. :?: :?: :?: :?
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