Latitude, MS and CCSVI: Any answers?

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Latitude, MS and CCSVI: Any answers?

Postby smokey » Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:34 pm

The association between occurrence of MS and latitude (birth) is well documented. Is there anywhere on thisisms - I could have missed it, explaining the association between latitude (birth) and CCSVI?
Last edited by smokey on Sun Jun 13, 2010 3:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Latitude, MS and CCSVI

Postby frodo » Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:38 am

smokey wrote:The association between occurence of MS and latitude (birth) is well documented. Is there anywhere on thisisms - I could have missed it, explaining the association between latitude (birth) and CCSVI?

Just my guess. White people population is a higher percentage in North America, Europe, Argentina and Australia, all of them far from the Ecuator. I have never seen a study that discounts this distribution from the statistics. And that is a serious mistake because it is known that MS affects more white people.

It could also be a lack of vitamin D during pregnancy, and to be the other way around (white people more affected by their distribution)
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some figures

Postby hwebb » Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:59 am

I recall reading that Tokyo, Japan has a similar latitude to Melbourne, Australia. However, in Melbourne the MS rate is high (approx 1 in 1000)...in Tokyo low (approx 1 in 10,000).

Interestingly, the rate in Scotland is approx 1 in 250. The rate in neighbouring England and Wales is approx 1 in 1000. However, if you live in England and have a scottish surname, the figures of those with MS are close to those of people actually living in Scotland.

So genetics plays a large role.
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Postby smokey » Sun Jun 13, 2010 3:35 am

Hhhmm. I was wondering about this.
Whether it's more about genetics than latitude.
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Postby Cece » Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:02 am

I thought they'd accounted for genetics...that it truly is a latitude factor. If you move to a better latitude for your childhood, you take on the risk characteristic of that better latitude.

Vitamin 'D', the sunshine vitamin, is in short supply here in Minnesota. Low vitamin D is already known to be a risk factor for developing MS. Since latitude plays a role in sun exposure and hence levels of vitamin D, that might be it right there. Vitamin 'D' plays a role in vein health, that's how that ties in to CCSVI.
"However, the truth in science ultimately emerges, although sometimes it takes a very long time," Arthur Silverstein, Autoimmunity: A History of the Early Struggle for Recognition
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Postby cheerleader » Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:24 am

Truncular venous malformations are more prevalent in Caucasians-(almost exclusive) Dr. BB Lee quoted at the CCSVI conference in Bologna.
Truncular venous malformations are congenital, the type of lesion associated with CCSVI and discussed on this thread:
http://www.thisisms.com/ftopict-12135-t ... lformation
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Vitamin D and Hypoxia

Postby Shayk » Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:36 am

Jumping in here too on the notion the latitude/Vitamin D issues might be related. Toward that end, if you suspect "hypoxia" is one the effects of CCSVI, there is research suggesting Vitamin D is quite neuroprotective in this area.

Not new but may be worth repeating given the large body of research on Vitamin D and MS.

Neuroprotection by co-treatment and post-treating with calcitriol following the ischemic and excitotoxic insult in vivo and in vitro
Calcitriol was ....administered after acute exposure of rat cerebellar neurons to.... 7-day-old rat pups subjected to hypoxia-ischemia,

acute application of calcitriol....reduced brain damage.

The level of neuroprotection exceeded that achieved by hypoxic preconditioning used as the reference neuroprotective method.

So, one interpretation re: CCSVI and latitude would be that Vitamin D (calcitriol) potentially provides neuroprotection from hypoxia in geographic regions closer to the equator. Hence, lower incidence/prevalence of MS in some areas.

It remains to be seen of course.... :)

Sharon
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Re: some figures

Postby FlashHack » Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:00 am

hwebb wrote:I recall reading that Tokyo, Japan has a similar latitude to Melbourne, Australia. However, in Melbourne the MS rate is high (approx 1 in 1000)...in Tokyo low (approx 1 in 10,000).

Interestingly, the rate in Scotland is approx 1 in 250. The rate in neighbouring England and Wales is approx 1 in 1000. However, if you live in England and have a scottish surname, the figures of those with MS are close to those of people actually living in Scotland.

So genetics plays a large role.
Just my two cents here, but the Vitamin D deficiency in the pregnant mother seems to explain all of these associations. Especially knowing that CCSVI is congenital. The fact that Tokyo has a lower incidence than Melbourne could easily be explained by the fact that Japanese tend to eat much more Vitamin D rich foods (generally fish) than our friends down under. In addition, local weather patterns can influence Vitamin D deficiency (Scottland has more cloudy days than England, etc.).

The fact that MS seems to have increased globally as the world has industrialized also makes sense as people have spent more time indoors and away from the sun. Vitamin D is found in very few foods and our bodies generally manufacture large amounts of Vitamin D through sun exposure. Researchers are finding Vitamin D interacts with hundreds of genes and that you really can't OD on the D.
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Postby ttt1 » Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:06 am

There are several known causes for Budd-Chiari syndrome ( occlusion of the hepatic veins )
thrombosis, pregnancy/contraceptive use, infections, congenital ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budd-Chiar ... ome#Causes

Jugular Vein Thrombosis is a condition that may occur due to infection, intravenous drug use or malignancy, ...
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1162804-overview

I believe interventional radiologists never proved CCSVI to be congenital,
they just classified it [somehow] in their Hamburg classification,
as in "we are aware of this condition, we will accept your money".

Vitamin D - high pathogenic load -> lower vit d ?
HIV: People living with HIV use more vitamin D for normal bodily processes than others do.
http://aids.about.com/od/nutrition/a/vitamin_d.htm
TB: Patients with active tuberculosis are more likely to be vitamin D deficient than the rest of the population
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/103480.php
MS: during an acute [MS] attack, the vitamin D levels go way down
http://www.thisisms.com/ftopicp-110878.html

Imho, CCSVI may be congenital for some people, some may have CCSVI because of some injury, thrombosis,
infection ( bacterial, viral, fungal, ... -> inflammation, venous stenosis ), ...
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ability to metabolise vitamin D more impt than sun exposure

Postby hwebb » Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:39 pm

Flashhack...it is not so much the amount of sunshine you are exposed to which counts. It's your ability to metabolise vitamin D from the sunshine:

http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/ ... 596859.htm

Both genetic and environmental factors at work.
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Postby JoyIsMyStrength » Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:45 am

Geographically, I am an odd case in that I was born and raised in Alabama (hot, hot summers) until age 10, then lived in Virginia through adulthood before moving to Florida. My MRV showed "congenitally hypoplastic" (underdeveloped) left jugulars. I have strong German roots on my father's side going back to the 16th century, mother's side is mostly English.

That being said, I was raised in serious poverty with a "passel of young'uns" so I'm not sure how well I did nutritionally but I can tell you that I loved playing outdoors. None of my 7 siblings has MS. However my mother (who is paranoid schizophrenic, another brain disorder) used to shuffle her feet and complained of being "dead on her feet" all the time, while my father had horrible RLS and used to beat his legs at night to wake them up. Who knows?

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vitamin d metabolism

Postby hwebb » Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:10 pm

hi Pam,

I was suggetsing that prenatal vitamin D metabolism may be important, as it's believed that CCSVI is a congenital vein disorder. So not so important how much sun you've seen, or even how much sun your mother has seen. It may be important how well your mother was able to metabolise vitamin D.

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Postby FlashHack » Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:34 pm

hwebb wrote:So not so important how much sun you've seen, or even how much sun your mother has seen
If only metabolism were important than the birthdate studies would not have shown such a drastic bias of spring birthdays for pwMS. Sun exposure for your mom during your pregnancy matters!
Last edited by FlashHack on Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby JoyIsMyStrength » Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:15 pm

FlashHack, I was born in March! 8)
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