Occam's Razor

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Occam's Razor

Postby smokey » Sat Jun 26, 2010 8:45 pm

Occam's razor (or Ockham's razor[1]) is the principle that "entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity" (entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem). The popular interpretation of this principle is that the simplest explanation is usually the correct one...........
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Postby cheerleader » Sat Jun 26, 2010 8:55 pm

yup.
http://www.thisisms.com/ftopicp-85770-razor.html#85770

The problem with the EAE model, Bill, is that in order to create it, you need to inject a foreign antigen into the body...so the assumption is that some foreign matter enters the CNS and creates this reaction.

In encephalomyelitis (a differential for MS)- the reaction of inflammation and demyelination is created by a virus or vaccine.

Putnams' dogs developed an encephalitic reaction (inflammatory/demyelination) that looked just like MS WITHOUT introducing any foreign matter....simply by blocking the cerebral veins. Ockham's Razor.

Why do we continue to use a model which needs that extra step of foreign matter injection into the CNS of animals? I think it's because immunologists can "cure" EAE....but it takes a VASCULAR doctor to stop venous reflux and congestion. Venous doctors have never studied MS...until now.
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Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Postby smokey » Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:05 pm

Awwww, thought I might have been original.....never mind. Still a damn fine principle.
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Postby cheerleader » Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:14 pm

smokey wrote:Awwww, thought I might have been original.....never mind. Still a damn fine principle.


Ockham and Zamboni are the originals :)
and I agree with you 100%, smokey-
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Re: Occam's Razor

Postby sbr487 » Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:19 pm

smokey wrote:Occam's razor (or Ockham's razor[1]) is the principle that "entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity" (entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem). The popular interpretation of this principle is that the simplest explanation is usually the correct one...........


This is especially true in case of MS since routine method of explaining MS has failed for such a long time. As they say, when everything fails, start all over again. Thats the damn thing the neuros are not capable of. They dont want to climb down from the castles they have build in air all over the years ...
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Postby smokey » Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:20 pm

Too true!

May Occam and Zamboni be eternally cited!

It's a privilege to be at the cutting edge.
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Postby cah » Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:11 am

The naysayers always talk about "Zamboni's theory" in a way that suggests that he's on his own with this in order to make it look alien. But as we all know, he isn't. There's a bunch of specialists which not only have adopted the theory but actively contribute to it. We shouldn't talk about Zamboni alone.

Don't know if Occam was on his own, though... :wink:
"There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." Socrates
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Postby LR1234 » Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:36 am

More and more top vascular specialists are coming on board so like you have said Zamboni is not a lone ranger, he is part of a growing army:)

I reckon by this time next year CCSVI will be recognised as a treatable condition in every country. I don't think it can ever be suppressed now, the banks have burst!!:)
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Postby Cece » Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:49 am

LR1234 wrote:I reckon by this time next year CCSVI will be recognised as a treatable condition in every country.

except the US and Canada.... :(
"However, the truth in science ultimately emerges, although sometimes it takes a very long time," Arthur Silverstein, Autoimmunity: A History of the Early Struggle for Recognition
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Postby 1eye » Sun Jun 27, 2010 12:56 pm

I have at times tried to make a list of countries where Liberation is allowed:

Bulgaria
Italy
Germany
France
UK
US (if not in a trial. otherwise IRB footdrag)
Poland
Mexico
NOT CANADA
Kuwait
Jordan

any other? I can't remember them all.

Occam's -- A great shave, every time...
"Try - Just A Little Bit Harder" - Janis Joplin
CCSVI procedure Albany Aug 2010
'MS' is over - if you want it
Patients sans/without patience
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Postby ErikaSlovakia » Sun Jun 27, 2010 1:05 pm

1eye wrote:I have at times tried to make a list of countries where Liberation is allowed:

Bulgaria
Italy
Germany
France
UK
US (if not in a trial. otherwise IRB footdrag)
Poland
Mexico
NOT CANADA
Kuwait
Jordan

any other? I can't remember them all.

Occam's -- A great shave, every time...

- Slovakia - so far 8 procedures, they use stents, doctors are not sure yet but so far they "only" had to have permission from the hospital
- Czech Republic - 12 procedures - I do not have any other details
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Aug. 7, 09 Doppler Ultras. in Poland, left Jugul. valve problem, RRMS since 1996, now SPMS,
- Nov.3,09: one stent in the left jug. vein in Katowice, Poland, LDN, never on DMDs
- Jan. 19, 11: control venography in Katowice - negative but I feel worse
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Postby PCakes » Sun Jun 27, 2010 1:23 pm

costa rica
australia
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Postby Cece » Sun Jun 27, 2010 1:24 pm

Egypt, Costa Rica, India
"However, the truth in science ultimately emerges, although sometimes it takes a very long time," Arthur Silverstein, Autoimmunity: A History of the Early Struggle for Recognition
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Postby LR1234 » Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:59 am

Serbia
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