Endovascular venous procedures for MS? Commentary ???

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Endovascular venous procedures for MS? Commentary ???

Postby Shayk » Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:45 am

Hi all

This "title" showed up in pub med today, absent an abstract.

Endovascular venous procedures for multiple sclerosis?

Authors: Cortes Nino Mdel P, Tampieri D, Melançon D.,
Neuroradiology and Neurointerventional Division, Montréal Neurological Institute and Hospital, McGill University, Montréal, Québec, Canada

Is there anyone out there with access to the journal "Multiple Sclerosis" who might be able to give us a synopsis of this? My local university doesn't carry this journal.

Thanks!

Sharon
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Postby Cece » Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:56 am

Just clicking on the authors' names, their other research appears to be in the vascular field rather than the neurological field, so that is usually a good sign.
"However, the truth in science ultimately emerges, although sometimes it takes a very long time," Arthur Silverstein, Autoimmunity: A History of the Early Struggle for Recognition
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Postby joanp » Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:10 am

http://msj.sagepub.com/cgi/pdf_extract/16/7/771

you can see one page of the article here.
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Postby gothicrosie » Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:12 am

It belongs to Sage, I too cannot pull it up through my school but I found a site that has the first page of the document:
http://msj.sagepub.com/cgi/pdf_extract/16/7/771

scroll down and you will see it.

It is a commentary piece and the last sentence in the first paragraph states: "Herein we present a brief review of certain aspects of the venous anatomy and some of our concerns about the new therapeutic option."

I soooo want to read this whole thing.
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Postby patientx » Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:21 am

Cece wrote:Just clicking on the authors' names, their other research appears to be in the vascular field rather than the neurological field, so that is usually a good sign.

A good sign of what?
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Postby cheerleader » Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:25 am

Hey Sharon--
interesting. Will see if I can did it up. McGill is big in researching and promoting GIFT15...which "reverses MS!" in mice with EAE. So, not expecting much :)
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Postby happy_canuck » Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:35 am

I got it through my university library. The authors do a very detailed account of reasons why the venous system would not be adversely affected by stenosis -- basically because it's adaptive and designed to make up for insufficiencies. They cite how damaged veins have not been linked to lesion formation and the like. It's an article by vascular docs, but it sounds like they are biased towards saying why CCSVI cannot play any role in MS (note -- they work for a neurovascular institute!). They totally ignore/omit any mention of developmental processes or viral involvement that may be part of the MS disease process.

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Postby Cece » Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:40 am

Also I found it odd that they are saying that neuro-interventionalists are at the center of this. They are not. Neuro-interventionalists focus on the intracranial veins of the brain. Interventional radiologists focus on the veins of the body. The neck and chest veins (jugulars and azygous) belong to the IRs.
"However, the truth in science ultimately emerges, although sometimes it takes a very long time," Arthur Silverstein, Autoimmunity: A History of the Early Struggle for Recognition
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Postby cheerleader » Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:06 am

happy_canuck wrote:I got it through my university library. The authors do a very detailed account of reasons why the venous system would not be adversely affected by stenosis -- basically because it's adaptive and designed to make up for insufficiencies. They cite how damaged veins have not been linked to lesion formation and the like.

~Sandra


Wow. So I guess Budd Chiari patients don't really need new livers. And venous ulcers are merely figments of the imagination. And those suffering with jugular venous thrombosis and intracranial hypertension are wussies. So glad they can clear that up for us.
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Postby ms2009 » Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:30 pm

My wife is being followed at McGill MS clinic. The least I can say is that they feel CCSVI is extra-terrestrial.

The first time I talked to the neuro about it, he was about to explode.
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Postby 1eye » Thu Jul 15, 2010 6:50 pm

McGill being the reputed hangout of Colin Rose, and the place where I got my second opinion on the hopelessness of my state, I tend to discount things I hear from that direction. Also, it was near there I got my negative Doppler, with its valsalva etc. But that's just my own superstition. No science there at all. You will know them by their fruit. Or suits, or their proof if they're minors, or their glutes. Read the paper but wait till it comes out.

Think I can make any bucks selling anti-Zambonian research papers?
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Postby Cece » Thu Jul 15, 2010 7:48 pm

happy_canuck wrote:The authors do a very detailed account of reasons why the venous system would not be adversely affected by stenosis -- basically because it's adaptive and designed to make up for insufficiencies.

This is reminiscent of a conversation I have had a few times with my husband. I get going about how the body could compensate if it were just one stenosis...it's because there's two, or maybe more...bilateral blocked jugulars! Azygous blockage plus a May-Thurner blockage!...the body can compensate for one but it cannot compensate for two!
"However, the truth in science ultimately emerges, although sometimes it takes a very long time," Arthur Silverstein, Autoimmunity: A History of the Early Struggle for Recognition
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Postby CCSVIhusband » Thu Jul 15, 2010 7:50 pm

Bingo Cece ... now you're talking!

It's what the IR we talked to today said ... almost word for word when looking at my wife's images.
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Postby Drury » Thu Jul 15, 2010 8:43 pm

I just want to thank you all for bringing so much to this forum.

Every day I learn a little more.

Drury
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Postby 1eye » Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:21 pm

Also I found it odd that they are saying that neuro-interventionalists are at the center of this. They are not. Neuro-interventionalists focus on the intracranial veins of the brain. Interventional radiologists focus on the veins of the body. The neck and chest veins (jugulars and azygous) belong to the IRs.


Puh, puh, p-p-please, Cece, some of those docs, will believe every word! I don't know how this is going to 'shake out' but somebody thinks they're somehow losing turf. And I am, as you may know, against slavery, even enslavement of the veins... :-)
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