blood thinners

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

blood thinners

Postby codefellow » Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:41 pm

I have to wonder why blood thinners were not any help in treating MS/CCSVI?

I also wonder why they are required after the liberation treatment?

Sorry if this has been discussed before. I am trying to anticipate questions my wife's GP might have when I bring CCSVI to her attention. I realized I could not answer these with anything explanation that sounded plausible.

Thanks.
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Postby Cece » Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:02 pm

Blood thinners are prescribed after the procedure by some docs to reduce the chances of a thrombosis. Dr. Sclafani has talked about his first patient, who had a jugular that he was able to balloon but then it clotted and was unsalvageable. Clots can form because the angioplasty is an injury to the blood vessel wall and the body responds to injury by clotting. This is my best understanding of this and in no way constitutes medical advice. :)

Your question about why blood thinners didn't work for MS seems like a good one. I wouldn't expect them to solve it, but there should have been an effect? Unless blood thinners have little to no effect on the reflux itself? And of course no matter how thin blood gets, it won't get through a 100% stenosed jugular.

Best of luck with that GP.
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Postby silverbirch » Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:40 pm

I started taken baby asprin 75 daily to see if it would ease my cold foot and it did

I was in hosp with what was thought to be a stroke so they put me on statins/asprin then after an mri dx with ms I was taken of asprin/statins

Some months later I got a cold foot after reading about ccsvi I took asprin again three weeks later foot not cold and Im still taken it,
I did inform my gp /neuro and I do not take any DMD

I have recently been tested for ccsvi at EHC and a positive on right IJV with a little on the left procedure date to follow
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Postby Nunzio » Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:49 pm

Cece wrote:Your question about why blood thinners didn't work for MS seems like a good one. I wouldn't expect them to solve it, but there should have been an effect? Unless blood thinners have little to no effect on the reflux itself? And of course no matter how thin blood gets, it won't get through a 100% stenosed jugular.

Best of luck with that GP.

The reason blood thinner do not help is because the term "blood thinner" is a misnomer. There are no medicine that can change your blood viscosity.
The only thing blood thinner do is to prevent clotting, so they are given to people with plaques in the carotid or coronary artery where a clot could form with disastrous consequences and, of course if you cut yourself you will bleed more profusely.
Pentoxyfilline make red blood cells more pliable and is used for people with claudication, but it helps only when blood moves through small blood vessels.
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thinners

Postby blossom » Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:20 pm

google "HUGHES SYNDROME" sometimes referred to as STICKY BLOOD. it is estimated that up to 10 percent of people wrongly diag. with ms could have hughes syndrome (named after dr. hughes that discovered it. treatable with asparin and harder cases blood thinners. on my futile quest of a dr. to look into this for me i took about 4 asparin in one night to help a stiff neck i had at the time and my feet warmed up. the days i did this they warmed up. telling the dr.'s about this and telling them maybe i needed a blood thinner because of what i had read and the reaction i had to taking that many asparin at one time. the response was always as with anytime i approached them with anything that was not their idea. i gave up and was afraid to keep taking that amt. of asparin on my own that i may bleed internally or something. yet, about a yr. ago a new neuro. that i went to when he did some testing "that was his idea" found a gene thing that is called "mthfr" abbrivation for big med. word. just google "MTHFR". it is a thing going on with my blood that makes me more prone to heart attack, stroke and clots. he put me on 1 asparin a day and folic acid. said that was the treatment. again, i'm thinking hey this guy might check me out for hughes syndrome-WRONG-when i mentioned hughes syndrome he looked at me and said WHAT'S THAT - i knew i was in trouble. I explained and to me would be logical for him to look into this and to test me for it. that maybe this mthfr thing could actually be connected to a bad form of hughe's syndrome and i would benefit from monitored blood thinners. BUT NNNNOOOOO. huhho-i forgot-this was not his idea and i was a nut case. there are not many dr.'s that don't want to have you even act like you might be trying to figure this ms mess out-"like they have the answers" and you do what i know how to do it or forget it. but if it is their idea they will order any test as long as it is their idea no matter the cost. so, yeah, here again what did i really expect. "maybe an answer"better than he gave me. on the upside along comes ccsvi a "blood flow" connection to ms. these doctors are thinking out of the box, they seem compassionate and dedicated and if they can all be allowed to get their opened minds together openly and freely and without being hindered by the burecratic bs and money mongers i think there will be many of the missing links about ms that will be resolved. the neuro.'s the vasc. dr.'s the dr.'s that treat blood disorders etc. god knows we with ms are a package deal. so, no matter what dr. we go to it would be nice to to feel they are listening and maybe check out what we have to say and even if we would be wrong-would it be like they have never been wrong? so, anyone who took the time to read my little book i am guilty of making a short story long but CHECK OUT "HUGHES SYNDROME" GOOGLE IT. maybe you'll have better luck finding a dr. that tests and treats it than i did. if you do hope you post or pm me. i'm hoping the vasc. teams are already looking at this. i'm tired, i'm sick i'm getting old i can't afford travel all over the world. hurry up "can you hear me now"? open it up, get the pressure off it, thin it down unkink it, replace it, whatever it takes. I'M TIRED OF LIVING MY LIFE IN" VEIN. "
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Postby Cece » Thu Jul 15, 2010 6:17 am

Nunzio wrote:The reason blood thinner do not help is because the term "blood thinner" is a misnomer. There are no medicine that can change your blood viscosity.
The only thing blood thinner do is to prevent clotting, so they are given to people with plaques in the carotid or coronary artery where a clot could form with disastrous consequences and, of course if you cut yourself you will bleed more profusely.
Pentoxyfilline make red blood cells more pliable and is used for people with claudication, but it helps only when blood moves through small blood vessels.

Nunzio, I appreciate this, thanks!
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Postby CCSVIhusband » Thu Jul 15, 2010 7:15 am

Not only that, no matter how "thin" blood is ... it still is of volume. If a vein is 80%, 90% or completely closed, the volume of the blood is still the same in the veins and it won't get through. There will be reflux/collateral development, and eventually ... problems.

Only opening the vein will rectify the problem ... I'm beginning to become a big believer in stents. They will permanently keep the vein open - the restenosis stuff is for the birds. (of course I'm all for properly developed stents - I should say).

Sometimes I think people on this board think too much ... (not to knock anyone - and I mean nobody in particular - because I do it too) ...
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Postby patientx » Thu Jul 15, 2010 8:26 am

There are no medicine that can change your blood viscosity

Of course there are - heparin, among others:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7083646

The decrease of blood viscosity due to heparin is one of the most important and beneficial effects of it in this pathology.
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