A treatment for multiple sclerosis that upsets Big Pharma

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:20 pm

excuse me folks.
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Postby concerned » Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:32 pm

CCSVIhusband wrote:Funny, that post I mentioned about Lyon making in the Site Support forum mysteriously disappeared after I mentioned it ... It'd been there for 2 weeks before tonight. (yet had a timely removal less than 15 minutes after I tried to bring it to everyones attention).


VERY strange ... do you people get what I'm getting at here?

They'll question everything you say ... but see the responses you get when you question anything they say?

MAYBE I'll just join the "rah-rah" over on the Facebook page ... except I'll actually concede that before my wife's liberation ... I was curious and wondered if CCSVI was true too ... now I know it IS.

So I'll be attacked for telling YOU all it is. and believe me I'm fine with it, so you all can continue your discussions ... and see who the people opposing discussion and ideas really are.



Something is VERY strange indeed.
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Postby jimmylegs » Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:33 pm

i ran across this topic by chance and would like to remind you:

Rules of the Board
http://www.thisisms.com/ftopicp-1639.html#1639
Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 4:44 pm [JL note: my emphasis added]

Just a friendly reminder: We love the debating that's been going on lately because it forces people to think critically and challenge their own beliefs.

However, there can be too much of a good thing. If you disagree with someone, please succintly state why and let it go at that. Point, counterpoint, counter-counter point, etc. is not useful-- the reality is that after the first disagreement, you will rarely convince another of something they feel strongly about unless you have shocking new information to share. The drawn-out debates also turn people off from reading the messages in the first place. If you really have to get something off your chest, please send that person a Private Message-- there is no need to have a long argument in public .

For the most part, everything on the board so far is just fine, but I want to keep it that way. We are all in this fight together; Let's focus all of our energies on trying to beat MS into submission, not each other.

If you disagree with what I said (how ironic!), please drop me a private message. However, I have received enough comments from members that are in support of the above to feel confident about what I just posted.

Peace, love, etc.

-Arron
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I have to put my hands into the wounds

Postby 1eye » Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:16 pm

Thanks for insightful info.


You're all most/almost welcome, I am nearly 90.9999999 percent, with first or second class evidence, and placebo remote-controlled, random, third-eye blinded trials, completely and unprovably certain.

No worries, Scrop. Plenty more if you need it.

High road, anyone? It's really a good view up here.
"Try - Just A Little Bit Harder" - Janis Joplin
CCSVI procedure Albany Aug 2010
'MS' is over - if you want it
Patients sans/without patience
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Postby BooBear » Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:23 am

I thought I would post these snippets from Biogen's own 10-K, filed in April of this year. Anyone who reads these and then believes that biopharmaceutical companies focused on this particular patient community are not nervous about CCSVI is delusional, IMO.

We are substantially dependent on revenues from our three principal products.

Our current and future revenues depend upon continued sales of our three principal products, AVONEX, RITUXAN and TYSABRI, which represented substantially all of our total revenues during 2009 and the first quarter of 2010. Although we have developed and continue to develop additional products for commercial introduction, we expect to be substantially dependent on sales from these three products for many years. Any negative developments relating to any of these products, such as safety or efficacy issues, the introduction or greater acceptance of competing products, including biosimilars, or adverse regulatory or legislative developments may reduce our revenues and adversely affect our results of operations.


So, to recap, ANY negative developments that will affect the sales of these drugs will substantially hurt the company. Is a surgical solution a negative development? You be the judge.

Because here is what Biogen thinks:

The introduction of more efficacious, safer, cheaper, or more convenient alternatives to our products could reduce our revenues and the value of our product development efforts.
[/quote]
Three veins angioplastied.  One renewed life.  
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Postby Lyon » Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:52 am

.
Last edited by Lyon on Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby BooBear » Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:04 am

Lyon, it isn't about a conspiracy theory. It's about business.

It's simple- in the case of Biogen, the sales of Avonex and Tysabri are integral to their sustainability over the next several years. That's not my opinion- that's the opinion of Biogen.

As such, if there is a development that will negatively impact the sales of these drugs- such as an oral treatment, a safer treatment, or a more effective treatment, they will suffer. Again, not my assessment- theirs.

At the end of the day, it's simple- if a treatment, like the Liberation Treatment for CCSVI, is found to be safer, less expensive and with a higher efficacy rate than Avonex and Tysabri, then Biogen (with their $1B indebtedness- read the 10-K) will suffer.

Of course they would be worried. As business people, they would look to shore up their distribution channels- the neuros that prescribe the drugs. To do otherwise would be poor judgement and bad business.
Three veins angioplastied.  One renewed life.  
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Postby HappyPoet » Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:33 am

BooBear,

Excellent post!

Thanks for digging up Biogen's information.
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Postby Dave_NC » Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:44 am

BooBear wrote:I thought I would post these snippets from Biogen's own 10-K, filed in April of this year. Anyone who reads these and then believes that biopharmaceutical companies focused on this particular patient community are not nervous about CCSVI is delusional, IMO.

We are substantially dependent on revenues from our three principal products.

Our current and future revenues depend upon continued sales of our three principal products, AVONEX, RITUXAN and TYSABRI, which represented substantially all of our total revenues during 2009 and the first quarter of 2010. Although we have developed and continue to develop additional products for commercial introduction, we expect to be substantially dependent on sales from these three products for many years. Any negative developments relating to any of these products, such as safety or efficacy issues, the introduction or greater acceptance of competing products, including biosimilars, or adverse regulatory or legislative developments may reduce our revenues and adversely affect our results of operations.


So, to recap, ANY negative developments that will affect the sales of these drugs will substantially hurt the company. Is a surgical solution a negative development? You be the judge.

Because here is what Biogen thinks:

The introduction of more efficacious, safer, cheaper, or more convenient alternatives to our products could reduce our revenues and the value of our product development efforts.
[/quote]

Excellent post.
Learning and living everyday to the fullest. dx'd Oct. 2008. On the list for Liberation!
http://www.liberatedave.com http://mylifewms.blogspot.com
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Postby mrhodes40 » Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:17 am

http://bostonreview.net/BR35.3/angell.php

just a bit of food for thought.
I'm not offering medical advice, I am just a patient too! Talk to your doctor about what is best for you...
http://www.thisisms.com/ftopic-7318-0.html This is my regimen thread
http://www.ccsvibook.com Read my book published by McFarland Health topics
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Postby CCSVIhusband » Mon Jul 19, 2010 12:04 pm

Lyon wrote:
BooBear wrote: Anyone who reads these and then believes that biopharmaceutical companies focused on this particular patient community are not nervous about CCSVI is delusional, IMO.
I stand corrected. I guess engrossing yourself in a conspiracy theory is in your best interest.


Where did that post you deleted from the site support go Lyon?

Why didn't you want anyone to read your criticism of the moderators on this board for being too "pro-ccsvi"?

Everyone, Lyon has a journal entry from January that Kacey posted about Dr. Mehta.

If Lyon is so uninterested in CCSVI as he claims to be ... why is he keeping notes on where people post doctors names and things like that?

Great posts BooBear ... your right, just like my company isn't worried about our competitors stealing market-share ... I'm sure Biogen is completely resigned to letting something take money from their investors.

It makes absolute business sense.

To put it another way, if you own a landscaping business but are paying regular Americans $15 per hour to cut grass, and as a result have to charge $25 per lawn to make a profit ...

yet you have a competitor who pays illegal immigrants $8 per hour to cut grass, and can charge $15 per lawn cut ... are you going to sit there and let them take your business away from you?

Nope, you're probably going to find a way to respond.

Don't think Biogen and these other companies aren't doing the same thing.

Let the bash CCSVIhusband fest commence for the day.
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Postby concerned » Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:12 pm

weren't we warned about this kind of stuff? give it a rest.
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Postby CCSVIhusband » Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:24 pm

that journal post detailing Kacey's post about Dr. Mehta is gone now too from his profile ...

I wonder what deleting all these things I bring up is about? Why doesn't he want you guys to read them?

Hmmm ... I don't think this 'group' has figured out how to deal with me yet ... not the new me at least.

:twisted:

But hey, let them all sit back and wait to be liberated until the studies come out ... more room at the front of the line for the rest of us.

carry on minions ... carry on.

By the way, as of today you can all call me Dr. --- unfortunately it's the PhD kind or believe me I'd be an interventional radiologist and treat every single one of you ...
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Postby jimmylegs » Mon Jul 19, 2010 4:04 pm

ENOUGH.
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Postby jimmylegs » Mon Jul 19, 2010 4:08 pm

if the tone of these posts continue with repetitive pettiness in contravention of Arron's stated rules of the board, posted above for the benefit of readers on this thread, then pending moderator conference, this topic may be locked and/or edited and/or deleted.
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