May-Thurner and MS/check it out

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Postby AlmostClever » Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:56 am

Now that I have been diagnosed with M-T, am wondering why or how the right leg can be more affected (i.e weaker) than the left?


Thanks for any ideas.

A/C
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Al Einstein
AlmostClever
Family Elder
 
Posts: 366
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:00 pm
Location: Houston, TX

Advertisement

Postby Rokkit » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:42 am

AlmostClever, the only 2 explanations I can think of:

1) The MT is incidental and has nothing to do with your right leg issues.

2) The MT in combination with another lumbar or azygous issue is resulting in redirected flow that's causing the right leg issues instead of a situation where the MT directly affects the left leg. I have no idea if this is even physiologically plausible.
Rokkit
Family Elder
 
Posts: 669
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 3:00 pm

Postby AlmostClever » Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:41 am

Thanks Rokkit

Do you think that it is possible for the right iliac artery and the left iliac vein to compress each other resulting in reduced flow of each leg?

I have read that the artery will be much stronger because it is under greater pressure but I was wondering if this was possible...
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Al Einstein
AlmostClever
Family Elder
 
Posts: 366
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:00 pm
Location: Houston, TX

Postby Cece » Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:12 pm

I know MT is far more common on the left but it can happen on the right too. I'd assume that on the right it'd be the right iliac artery compressing the right iliac vein?
Cece
Family Elder
 
Posts: 8990
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:00 pm

Postby KDGO » Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:22 pm

AlmostClever wrote:Now that I have been diagnosed with M-T, am wondering why or how the right leg can be more affected (i.e weaker) than the left?


Thanks for any ideas.

A/C


I too have M-T which is an asymptomatic syndrome until it presents itself. I did read that it usually is the left but not always....my right is worse than my left. My concern is that under "normal" circumstances why would one even be tested for M-T unless they present with a clot...therefore what should a dr do if it does present...wait for the problem?
User avatar
KDGO
Family Member
 
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:00 pm

Postby newlywed4ever » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:26 pm

As of 8/5, Dr S told me "thought I'd seen the worse case of May-Thurner, until you...but your body has dealt with it efficiently." (??) And I present with right foot disability.
newlywed4ever
Family Elder
 
Posts: 255
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:00 pm
Location: Michigan

Postby AlmostClever » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:49 pm

Throwing this out there for you guys to chew on:

Looking at the x-ray sequence of the dye injection into my left iliac vein, it is very obvious that a portion of the blood flow refluxes back down into the right iliac vein.

To me, this seems to be the same as blood refluxing back up into the brain from occluded jugulars. This might also explain why some people here present with worse right leg symptoms due to May-Thurner's.

Although the doc said the body had sufficiently accomadated for the M-T, isn't this the parallel of jugulars forming collaterals? There is still a flow problem that needs to be corrected in my opinion.

Maybe there is excess iron deposition in the right leg or the flow of oxygen and nutrients is slower and insufficient?

I'll try to post my video sequence of this when I get home next week but thought it to be an interesting theory.

Check your videos if you got them to see if this is the case for you as well!
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Al Einstein
AlmostClever
Family Elder
 
Posts: 366
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:00 pm
Location: Houston, TX

Postby Katie41 » Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:32 am

6 week update: Just returned from a 4 day camping trip in the High Sierras. What a glorious time I had with my 5 and 7 year old granddaughters! I was able to climb a mountain trail in 20 min! I wasn't even huffing and puffing in the more than 1 mile altitude! Last year, it took me 1 1/2 hours and I was exhausted! This year, I wasn't even tired! One of my goals was to walk across a large fallen log that crosses a mountain river. My great, new and improved, balance made it possible for me to cross the log and I have the pictures to prove it!!! My left leg, which was always the much weaker one, was so strong that I was able to climb up a 3 to 4 foot boulder, putting most of my weight on my left leg! Last year, prior to my liberation in Poland and my MT stent in Costa Mesa, I never could have remotely done that. I'm still working on becoming stong enough to get across the second log required to completely cross the river. Next year! Not bad for a 69 year-old!

I always resented how old MS made me look, since I didn't ever feel that old. Now, I'm able to do things that I haven't been able to do for years, and I'm looking younger! Yeah!!! :D One of my student's parents asked when I was thinking of retiring since, "You must be getting close to 60". Little did she know, I'm getting close to 70! I'll never tell :lol: Ready for my very challenging 4th/5th/6th grade class of 32 kids! Bring it on :D :D :D
User avatar
Katie41
Family Elder
 
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:00 pm
Location: Southern California

Postby CCSVIhusband » Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:55 am

Love it ...

Good luck with the kids Katie ... fantastic! So happy for you.
User avatar
CCSVIhusband
Family Elder
 
Posts: 474
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2010 3:00 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA USA

Postby 1eye » Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:52 pm

I've had swelling in my left leg only a few months: in fact I was thinking being on this forum all the time was doing it! :wink:

But Dr. Siskin, even though he went in on the left, didn't find that.

So what else might it be? It has been better occasionally since liberation. Mostly not.

It has not been swollen, but has been paralyzed (no toe movement or dorsiflection, and walking (leg use) affected but probably by the compensations for the primaries (foot paralyses).

As far as I can see (I know, Lyon, that ain't very far) only the foot is swollen, not rest of leg, so far.
"Try - Just A Little Bit Harder" - Janis Joplin
CCSVI procedure Albany Aug 2010
'MS' is over - if you want it
Patients sans/without patience
User avatar
1eye
Family Elder
 
Posts: 2876
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:00 pm
Location: Kanata, Ontario, Canada

Postby Katie41 » Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:07 pm

Our bodies sure are a puzzlement :? It can be very frustrating in many instances medically (for many conditions, not just this). At least, we have some answers now. Just keep searching, something will probably come to you that will answer your questions and send you in the direction that will work for you. Always trust your own instincts and follow them. They generally will lead you to what is best for you.
User avatar
Katie41
Family Elder
 
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:00 pm
Location: Southern California

Postby AlmostClever » Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:41 pm

Can someone refresh my memory on why some doctors have begun to check the iliac veins?

Thx
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Al Einstein
AlmostClever
Family Elder
 
Posts: 366
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:00 pm
Location: Houston, TX

Postby Rokkit » Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:53 pm

I think just because Zamboni's "liberation 100" paper talks about it, especially with respect to PPMS.
Rokkit
Family Elder
 
Posts: 669
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 3:00 pm

Postby Lyon » Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:26 pm

.
Last edited by Lyon on Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lyon
Family Elder
 
Posts: 6063
Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 3:00 pm

Postby Cece » Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:34 pm

AlmostClever wrote:Can someone refresh my memory on why some doctors have begun to check the iliac veins?

Thx

Dr. Sclafani came back from Italy with the information, which was put into practice quickly by Dr. Siskin, that Dr. Zamboni entered from the left to check for hypoplasic lumbar veins and MT syndrome. The explanation for why he entered from the left was left out of Zamboni's original paper by the editors for space reasons, which is why we weren't talking about it back in 2009 but are now. Problems with the lumbar veins means that blood flow may be redirected to the azygous. If you also have azygous stenosis, it cannot handle its own load let alone the redirected flow from messed-up lumbar veins.
Cece
Family Elder
 
Posts: 8990
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:00 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency (CCSVI)

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users