Link between oxygen, liberation and Dr Petrov!

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Link between oxygen, liberation and Dr Petrov!

Postby Justliberated » Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:24 am

I have just heard from a contact who has just finished dinner with Dr Petrov. He said Dr P is about to release a paper on the conection between oxygen and carbon dioxide concentrations in the blood, MS and Liberation. Those of us who are converts to Liberation and HBO and have shouted a possible connection between the two should be interested.

Watch this space, I will keep you informed.
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Postby MS_HOPE » Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:05 am

Excellent - thank you, Justlib. Another piece of the puzzle....
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Postby Cece » Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:45 am

I'd like to hear more on this, once it's available. Thanks for sharing.
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Re: Link between oxygen, liberation and Dr Petrov!

Postby frodo » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:05 am

Justliberated wrote:I have just heard from a contact who has just finished dinner with Dr Petrov. He said Dr P is about to release a paper on the conection between oxygen and carbon dioxide concentrations in the blood, MS and Liberation. Those of us who are converts to Liberation and HBO and have shouted a possible connection between the two should be interested.

Watch this space, I will keep you informed.


Thanks.

I also would appreciate a little background about who is Dr. Petrov, if you could. This is the first time I hear about him.
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Postby SammyJo » Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:08 pm

Justliberated wrote: "converts to Liberation and HBO "

If anyone has tried hyperbaric oxygen for MS/CCSVI, please report your results!

I know it is widely used at the 60 UK MS Centers, for only $15 per session because it is a non-profit, here's info/picture of their group chamber
http://www.msntc.org.uk/therapies.htm

I've been researching HBOT over the years. Those with MS report good results, but it fades after a short time if you don't keep diving. Now that we are onto CCSVI, the ongoing hypoxy could explain the fade.

In the US, MS is not on the approved list of HBOT conditions, so you can't get treated at hospital. This may change after the a study on vetrans and Hbot for traumatic brain injury (link) The group championing this is http://www.hyperbaricmedicalfoundation.org/

The mechanics of healing may go beyond just bathing the brain in oxygen, as suggested by the 2005 U. Penn study STEM CELL MOBILIZATION BY HYPERBARIC OXYGEN (link) "We conclude that HBO(2) mobilizes stem/progenitor cells by stimulating NO (nitric oxide) synthesis".


To go to a private facility in USA with hard chambers and trained staff costs $100-$150 per session. Here is a blog that lists US treatment centers (link) Also read the list of SIDE EFFECTS. Approach with caution, especially the portable home HBOT systems, where YOU are the technician.
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Postby Katie41 » Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:21 pm

I did hyperbaric treatments for two months, 5 days a week, last summer. There were immediate results; some lasting minutes, some lasting over 4 months. Eventually, all faded; however, I did know about how much CCSVI treatment could help me due to the improvements I made with hyperbaric.

Hyperbaric was a stopgap measure, as were other alternative treatments I've done over the years. I figured that they would keep me in good enough shape that when there was a quite successful treatment (CCSVI ballooning and May-Thurner stenting), I would benefit as much as possible from it. Yea! My strategy worked! :D

My son-in-law's step-mother did hyperbaric treatments about 15 years ago. She had MS and she has had no recurrence of symptoms since her 20 treatments for a month and then once a month for a year.

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Re: Link between oxygen, liberation and Dr Petrov!

Postby NotFound » Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:25 pm

frodo wrote:
Thanks.

I also would appreciate a little background about who is Dr. Petrov, if you could. This is the first time I hear about him.


Dr. Petrov is one of the doctors performing Liberation procedure in Bulgaria. See references to the threads regarding CCSVI treatment in Bulgaria.
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CCSVI and Hyperbaric Oxygen

Postby MarkW » Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:50 pm

As the chair of an MS Therapy Centre with an O2 chamber I am interested. My take on this = de-stenosis is doing more than just increasing O2 it is also removing more waste products from the brain.
O2 works for some people and it seems to alleviate some MS symptoms for a temporary period.
De-stenosis then O2 is an interesting concept. Yes O2 session are cheap - we ask for a donation of 12 gbp for pwMS, so if you are reasonably close to OX14. GP approval required.
Kind regards,
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Postby eric593 » Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:00 pm

Of course it's always important to go to existing research to see if HBOT has shown any effect on MS.

A meta-analysis of all available research by the Cochrane Group showed isolated to no benefit from the use of HBOT by people with MS.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14974004

Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2004;(1):CD003057.

Hyperbaric oxygen therapy for multiple sclerosis.
Bennett M, Heard R.

Diving and Hyperbaric Medicine, Prince of Wales Hospital, Barker St, Randwick, NSW, Australia.

Abstract
BACKGROUND: Multiple Sclerosis (MS) is a chronic, recurrent and progressive illness with no cure. On the basis of speculative pathophysiology, it has been suggested that Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy (HBOT) may slow or reverse the progress of the disease.

OBJECTIVES: The object of this review was to evaluate the efficacy and safety of HBOT in the treatment of MS. SEARCH STRATEGY: We searched the Cochrane MS Group trials register (July 2002), the Cochrane Central Register of Controlled Trials (The Cochrane Library, Issue 2, 2002), MEDLINE (January 1966 to October 2002) and the National Library of Medicine (NLM) database (July 2002), along with specialised hyperbaric resources and handsearching of relevant journals and proceedings.

SELECTION CRITERIA: All randomised, controlled trials involving a comparison between HBOT and a sham therapy in MS were evaluated.

DATA COLLECTION AND ANALYSIS: Two reviewers independently appraised all comparative trials identified, extracted data and scored them for methodological quality.

MAIN RESULTS: We identified ten reports of nine trials that satisfied selection criteria (504 participants in total). Two trials produced generally positive results, while the remaining seven reported generally no evidence of a treatment effect. None of our three a priori subgroup analyses placed these two trials in the same group and were therefore unable to account for this difference. Three analyses (of 21) did indicate some benefit. For example, the mean Expanded Disability Status Scale (EDSS) at 12 months was improved in the HBOT group (group mean reduction in EDSS compared to sham -0.85 of a point, 95% confidence interval -1.28 to -0.42, P = 0.0001). Only the two generally positive trials reported on this outcome at this time (16% of the total participants in this review).

REVIEWER'S CONCLUSIONS: We found no consistent evidence to confirm a beneficial effect of hyperbaric oxygen therapy for the treatment of multiple sclerosis and do not believe routine use is justified. The small number of analyses suggestive of benefit are isolated, difficult to ascribe with biological plausibility and would need to be confirmed in future well-designed trials. Such trials are not, in our view, justified by this review.
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CCSVI and Hyperbaric Oxygen

Postby MarkW » Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:23 pm

Cochrane Group looks at averages. On average O2 does not work for pwMS but it appears to help some pwMS. If you are one of those pwMS then spending a small amount of money each week seems reasonable to me.
Cochrane Group also says Vit D does not help MS on average, maybe.
Be careful of statistics with a complex multi-factorial disease like MS.
Kind regards,
MarkW
Mark Walker - Oxfordshire, England. Registered Pharmacist (UK). 11 years of study around MS.
Mark's CCSVI Report 7-Mar-11:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/8359854/MS-experts-in-Britain-have-to-open-their-minds.html
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Re: CCSVI and Hyperbaric Oxygen

Postby Lyon » Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:37 pm

.
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Postby shye » Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:41 pm

along these lines, has anyone heard of using ozone therapy (drips) for MS? I have run into a number of people using it for chronic fatigue, hepatitis C, and EBV--all claim it is helpful for killing off bacteria and virus, and increases energy. But I have yet to find anyone with MS using or having used it.
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HBOT to help with long term effects of low blood pressure?

Postby deezll » Tue Aug 17, 2010 5:41 am

I just had doppler scanning in glasgow on friday 13th which fortunately/unfortunately(?) showed I only had mild/moderate stenosis (within the 'normal' range) on both sides of my neck. It was more evident when standing.

After following ccsvi developments for over a year I was a 'little' disappointed, I wanted ccsvi to be a magic bullet for me. I've just booked myself in for HBO therapy (less than an hour away from home) in the hope it will help a body with 'lazy' blood ;)

My question is does anyone know whether a body with low bp since childhood might have a greater occurrence of damage/lesions in the brain when combined with moderately stenosed veins and also whether HBOT would help?

I was diagnosed 17 yrs ago and seem to be shuffling between rr & spms.

Thanks Mark for reminding us that averages can sometimes mean little to individuals.
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Postby nicknewf » Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:03 pm

He presented preliminary findings on this at the Sclafani symposium.

May explain immediate on table response to treatment the way iron deposition does not.

I don't think it is meant to get everyone on a HBO bandwagon - the differences between normal blood oxygenation in the femoral veins (?) and the jugular veins is pretty severe as compared to healthy controls, and the improvements he is seeing after only a few seconds are small. If he follows the Kuwaiti protocol and does the jugs first and then comes back to check, he can get an extra hour for oxygen levels to stabilize; maybe get more than only a few percentage points improvement. Who knows, maybe this could be a diagnostic test to see whether a person is a candidate and/or whether or not the treatment has caught all the narrowings/valves/blockages.

Again, I don't think he suggests HBO will correct the problem.
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Postby cheerleader » Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:52 pm

We've discussed this on here many times. Dr. Dake is of the belief that the immediate symptom relief from fatigue, cog fog, heat intolerance, spasms and bladder issues are due to relief from venous insufficiency and a quickening in perfusion time. This is why the relief of these issues is immediate. The blood flow and oxygenation levels change as soon as stenosis is relieved. Many patients have reported this affect while on the table---some called it high def vision, sudden alertness, immediate awakening.

HBOT cannot sustain this change in perfusion time or increase in oxygenation...although it may provide temporary relief, it is not sustained.

Here's a very informative thread on perfusion (delivery of arterial blood to the capillary bed), oxygenation and CCSVI. Dr. Haacke and Hubbard are also testing oxygenation levels using fMRI BOLD technology before and after angioplasty---and finding a big change before and after.

http://www.thisisms.com/ftopict-7708-hypoperfusion.html

cheer
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dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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