Rivers, Putnam, Polio and MS

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Rivers, Putnam, Polio and MS

Postby cheerleader » Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:22 pm

Reading a terrific book---A History of Multiple Sclerosis by Colin Talley. Very well-written and informative regarding the history of the MS activist movement, the founding of the NMMS, and the researchers involved. The current chapter I'm reading discusses how the polio vaccine changed researchers' perceptions as to how an incurable disease might be cured.

Thomas Rivers, who would later discover EAE in mice and become the leader in MS research, was involved in Salk's clinical trials with the polio vaccine. After seeing the success of this vaccine, the MS lobby was encouraged to follow Rivers lead into microbiology. MS neurology, which had previously been led by TJ Putnam and his vascular theory, was inexorably changed. MS patients, caregivers and activists wanted a cure....just as polio patients had received their cure. And they went with a "winner." Rivers' research was seen as the new frontier...Putnam's experiments in blood thinning did not cure MS, and he was replaced.

Here's a thread we began on Putnam and his MS research....
http://www.thisisms.com/ftopict-9669-putnam.html

cheer
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Postby sbr487 » Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:46 pm

Do you also know that there is a section of scientists that believe that MS might be sometimes triggered after vaccinations. Its just that the risks are too great to forgo vaccinations ...
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Postby Ruthless67 » Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:56 pm

Hi Cheerleader,

Thanks for the heads up on the book. I definately will read it too.

I watched the PBS Special a couple months back on Polio and how the March-of-Dimes was started and it was so informative. Being with you and the rest of the pioneer's here at Tim's since last fall, I find the parallels between the two scenerios so intriging.

There also was a PBS special back in March on MS. It was Multiple Sclerosi A to Z. The program was funded I believe by Bayer. I found the history segment of the show to be the most interesting, lots of information. But they sure glossed over the 1930-40's So it sounds to me ,like Colin Talley's book will fill in those gaps very nicely for me.

Thanks a million again Joan.

Lora
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Postby ozarkcanoer » Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:38 pm

I'm old enough to remember putting dimes in the slots on the March of Dimes cards. And I got the polio shots at school when they were first made available !!!! That was many years ago. Genetics and molecular biology have changed the face of medical research so much in the past 60 years. In one sense it is a wonder and a miracle. In another sense I often think there is a cart and horse problem. Science today wants to unravel things from the bottom up and it is fascinating what they can do. But I was really amazed when I discovered here on TIMS that no one had ever much considered problems with malformations of the jugular veins. I just assumed that human anatomy had been explored to the nth degree. The local neuroradiologist who I consulted with, a very smart man and a good doctor, told me he often sees these kinds of malformations in the course of treating his patients. He just doesn't know if they do any harm.

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Postby sumsum » Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:22 am

Just ordered the book!

Thanks for the hint cheerleader! :D
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Postby Merlyn » Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:19 pm

I have read that the polio epidemic was related to the fashionable removal of the tonsils. That once they stopped yanking everyone's tonsils, polio became less of a problem. But maybe it's just another conspiracy theory.
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Postby cheerleader » Sun Aug 01, 2010 1:27 pm

Don't think there's any relationship to tonsil removal, Merlyn. Tonsillitis is non-specific...it can be caused by bacterial or viral infection. Poliomyelitis is a know virus. The virus is mostly killed, then kept intact enough to trigger the body's immune response thru a vaccine.
https://health.google.com/health/ref/Poliomyelitis

Salk studied many viruses-such as influenza--and worked on vaccines for these viruses. Some doctors believe MS is a yet unidentified virus....but many decades of research in this specific area has failed to reveal a direct link to any one virus. EBV has been linked..but it can't be the only cause of MS, or 99% of the world would have MS.

Thomas Rivers worked with Salk, and saw that early trials of vaccines sometimes failed, by creating paralytic accidents in the CNS. Here's a great paper explaining how Dr. Rivers came to create the EAE model of MS, utilizing this knowledge of foreign antigens and vaccines.

http://jem.rupress.org/content/early/20 ... a.full.pdf

The problems remains....the specific antigen has never been identified in MS. One would think that 60 years of microbiology would have found the antigen, if there was one...
cheer
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Postby Merlyn » Mon Aug 02, 2010 12:13 pm

Depends on who you believe. Tonsils filter out bacteria and viruses. Removing them makes people more susceptible to pathogens.

http://www.worldchiropracticalliance.or ... p1989h.htm


When speaking of this term in conjunction with the polio epidemics of the past, there are two common medical procedures that should come to mind: tonsillectomy and vaccination itself.

Tonsils are defined as a mass of lymphatic tissue located in the depressions of the mucous membranes of the fauces and the pharynx. Their function is to act as a filter to protect the body from invasion of bacteria, and to aid in the formation of white blood cells. A common childhood ritual, which is still being performed today, is a procedure known as tonsillectomy or removal of one's tonsils
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Back to Vaccines

Postby PointsNorth » Mon Aug 02, 2010 12:47 pm

Back to Vaccines . . . . .

In late 2002, I took the seasonal flu vaccine as I was instructed to do so by doctors as I've had IBD (Crohn's Disease) since the late '80s. Exactly 5 days after receiving the vaccine much of my body went numb. A neurologist diagnosed my condition as Guillane-Barre Syndrome. In subsequent weeks/months I experienced more of the onset symptoms of MS (l'hermittes/optic neuritis). My long-time gastroenterologist thought that the length of time between vaccine delivery & G-B symptoms was suspicious. He was also the one to suspect that I had MS and instructed me to go to the local MS clinic ...

G-B Fact Sheet
http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/gbs/detail_gbs.htm
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Postby Merlyn » Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:35 am

I wish they would stop putting thimerosal into every vaccine, it makes it hard to separate the effects of mercury from immune responses to the vaccine itself. I tested very high in mercury when I did a DMPS challenge test, I was high off the scale. So I certainly don't need thimerosal injected into my system. I never take flu shots.
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Thimiserol

Postby PointsNorth » Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:23 pm

Needless to say I stopped my annual vaccination after G-B & subsequent MS diagnosis. Its seems that they have taken thimiserol (sp?) out of children's vaccines (autism scare?) but like you say, vaccines for adults do still carry thimiserol (perhaps as a preservative?) I remember my dentist offering to remove mercury fillings at no charge.

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Postby cheerleader » Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:33 pm

so, anyway....the book is really good. The chapter on how the international MS Societies began after the US one was started by patients and advocates in the US is my fav so far.
cheer
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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