2 deaths in Italian study, claims Swedish study

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Postby MrSuccess » Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:46 pm

with all due respect for our friends in Sweden , Denmark , and Germany ..... I think they could benfit from a visit to Ferrara Italy.

As we know ..... curious CCSVI investigators from North America have travelled to see Professor Zamboni .... and learn how-to .... from the Master.

Our Dr. Dake has clearly understood stenosis .... other skilled people could not see ........ on CCSVI images.

It is that difficult to see and understand .

To quote Dr. Zamboni ........ first view many good healthy veins first ..... before looking for CCSVI . Sounds like good advice.

Until they are taught by expert CCSVI investigators .....

they will continue to grope around in the dark.




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Postby Salvatore24 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:12 pm

MrSuccess wrote:To quote Dr. Zamboni ........ first view many good healthy veins first ..... before looking for CCSVI . Sounds like good advice.

Until they are taught by expert CCSVI investigators .....

they will continue to grope around in the dark.




Mr. Success


Unfortunately people think that because Dr. Zamboni or his collaborators need to show them how to do proper dopplers or see stenosis, they are under the impression that these stenosis or reflux are "made up".

Better off ignoring "studies" like this that don't replicate Zambonis work.
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Postby garyak » Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:45 pm

Here is what aired on CTV news regarding the Swedish study

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/SciTech/20100 ... nt-100804/
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Postby kirch86 » Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:19 am

Good, seems like a balanced report!!!
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Postby selkie » Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:40 am

Jugular wrote:My apologies to Sweden then. Maybe they were just having a blond moment.


OMG - I know I should laugh but that is so funny! :lol:
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Yeah. Sloppy Swedish study.

Postby Swede » Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:52 am

Now they changed it to one dead in the pressrelease that has gone around the world. And there is nothing that says that they have changed it.

Or have they sent it again. I don t think so.

One MS-patient contacted them and dr Sundström told her that he had heard och read about the two deaths somewhere.

I would not trust the Swedish universities.

Googletranstlate this if you want to know more what dr Sundström told to the Swedish patient.

http://www.tell-us.se/35873004
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very disturbing

Postby LivabirdsHubbie » Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:58 am

Very disturbing that a so called Professional who has published this has actually published hearsay from someone or something he has read about.
What ever happened to verifying facts before you speak, guess that does not apply to these so called specialist determined to discredit all the good work that is going on.

Makes you wonder about his credibility at all.... did he just read about CCSVI in some Neurologist propaganda and then decide to report this as well...
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Re: very disturbing

Postby BadCopy » Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:41 am

LivabirdsHubbie wrote:Very disturbing that a so called Professional who has published this has actually published hearsay from someone or something he has read about.
What ever happened to verifying facts before you speak, guess that does not apply to these so called specialist determined to discredit all the good work that is going on.

Makes you wonder about his credibility at all.... did he just read about CCSVI in some Neurologist propaganda and then decide to report this as well...


SURE DOES MAKE ME WONDER !

We have heard report after report of patients having Dopplers or MRV that found nothing only to have a Venogram find stenosis. I know that DR Haake is a very good DR but after all this have we not learned that if you want to find the stenosis the best thing to do is just DO THE VENOGRAM.

I will not question if I hace CCSVI or not after a venogram. But I think I would after a MRV and/or Doppler. Would you?
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Re: very disturbing

Postby Swede » Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:44 am

LivabirdsHubbie wrote:
Makes you wonder about his credibility at all.... did he just read about CCSVI in some Neurologist propaganda and then decide to report this as well...


Dr Sundström did not remember where he got the impression that there was two deaths in Italy.

The pressrelease is very aggressive and media is quoting it all over the world. The should send a new one with correct info but I think it would be too embarrassing for them.

When I read his papers the only thing I see is that they went for a bear hunt and came home with nothing and now they say there was nothing in the woods.

The only thing they should be able to say is that they were there. Incompetence can be one reason why they did not find anything.

Big Pharma rules in Sweden.
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Postby concerned » Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:05 am

Does any one know for sure that there hasn't been any deaths in italy?
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deaths and ccsvi

Postby LivabirdsHubbie » Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:43 am

concerned,
Don't you think with all the news media(most negative) if there had been any deaths it would be plastered all over the world, they are still going on about the 1 death in the US which was totally unrelated to the procedure, the family even stated that.
Here is the link from a Neurologist in Italy, i have posted earlier in case you missed it.
http://ccsvinews.blogspot.com/2010/06/i ... tment.html
concerned wrote:Does any one know for sure that there hasn't been any deaths in italy?
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Postby concerned » Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:50 am

Well, it did have to do with the drugs they give for the procedure, so it has something to do with it, certainly. There has also been, no doubt, other, non-fatal but definitely serious medical emergencies caused by the procedure, no?

So no deaths [from the procedure] at all in Italy though? This is for sure?
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Postby selkie » Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:59 am

concerned wrote:Well, it did have to do with the drugs they give for the procedure, so it has something to do with it, certainly. There has also been, no doubt, other, non-fatal but definitely serious medical emergencies caused by the procedure, no?

So no deaths [from the procedure] at all in Italy though? This is for sure?


You could contact the original reporter at CTV-5 who interviewed Dr. Zamboni, for one if you don't believe this. There were no deaths mentioned in the interview, but I'm sure if there had been deaths, she would have known it and it would have been reported in the entire series she did on CCSVI & Zamboni.

I think the article is in error - there were 2 deaths at Stanford which have been gone over & gone over. Yes, any surgery you take a risk. When I had eye surgery so I wouldn't go blind, the risk was I could have lost my eye due to infection. I didn't. When I had a different surgery I had to sign a waiver saying I understood I could die. I didn't.

How many deaths from Tysabri now? Over 20? Everything is a risk. But I'll risk death to get better just as I did in those other surgeries and with every medication I've ever taken.

But as far as I know, the Stanford deaths are the only ones I've heard of re: liberation. It's an acceptable risk to me - if it isn't to you, wait for more research.
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Postby LivabirdsHubbie » Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:04 am

concerned,
you will have to check with the italian health authorities to be 100% sure, but i doubt it has happened.
Yes it was the drugs, but if the person broke their leg and was put on blood thinners the same thing could very well have happened.... i am pretty sure that would not have made the media then.
There are positive and negatives around the procedure you have to just look around, there is even a forum in the sticky dedicated to people who have had the procedure with either no benefit or negative, there are always risks no matter how simple the procedure, TIMS is very good because people will always post the good and bad.
You then have to weigh up your own situation and make the decision.
My wife had it in poland and we are now going to bulgaria for more treatment
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Postby concerned » Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:05 am

How many people have taken Tysabri? not to say I'm all for that drug, but last I read it was 65,000 or something. And I see 11 deaths as of may 2010. How many people have been "liberated" and where have they all been tracked?
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