Did your eye sight improved after angioplasty?

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Did your eye sight improved after angioplasty?

Postby TMrox » Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:47 am

I’ve just come back from my routine eye check up.

My ophthalmologist told me: What have you done to your eyes? Your eyesight improved by one point in each eye compared to the test you had 10 months ago. Back then I was -3 in both eyes the same -3 I have been in the last five years.

This doc said that in some people eyesight can improve over time but not as much by one point in just a few months.

I’ve had evoked visual potentials, my neurologists have checked, re-checked and re-checked the optic nerve and brain and all tests have been normal all along.

Could this be another placebo effect from the angioplasty I had almost 5 months ago?

Rox
Last edited by TMrox on Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Diagnosed with Transverse Myelitis in December 2008. Inflammatory demyelination of the spinal cord (c3-c5). No MS, but still CCSVI.
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Postby dania » Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:21 am

This improvement with eyesight many people reported after having the procedure. I thought there was nothing wrong with my vision But when I did have the procedure I was amazed that my vision was now so crisp and clear. Colours were now vibrant. It was like I had been wearing grey tinted glasses. I restenosed and my vision went back to greyish. Had second procedure and vision again is fantastic. How can this be a placebo effect when you do not believe you have a problem to begin with?
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Postby belsadie » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:00 pm

I had angios in late July...the left eye 's visual acuity was compromised due to optic neuritis.. Post angio- the vision in that eye seems clearer............
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Postby garyak » Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:01 am

By 1 Point do you mean 1 diopter of myopia ( near-sightedness )?
Blur from being a few diopters myopic is mainly due to the shape and anatomy of the eye itself. Myopia does not get worse with MS. Also MS does not change the size of the eye itself. What does affect your vision in MS is Optic Neuritis.
So any improvement in myopia post-procedure should not in any way be associated with being liberated. Some factors need to be looked at including if your refraction to determine your amount of myopia was done by a trained ophthalmic technician , an ophthalmologist or an optometrist. How long was it that you last had this prescription determined. One diopter is quite a bit if it was only ten months. Many other systemic conditions can change your refraction .
I am an optometrist and on numerous occaisions a patient will have a stable prescription all the way through their 30's and 40's then have it start to improve significantly starting in the 40's and continue improving into the 50's.
Improved quality of vision post-procedure would be best explained by improved transmission through the optic nerve that had the previous neuritis.
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Postby smokey » Sat Aug 07, 2010 1:08 am

My ON improved from 6/75 to 6/6 after angioplasty. Unfortunately this improvement was not maintained. I estimate it lasted a couple of weeks. I have had a minimal ongoing improvement. Hopefully the next angioplasty will lead to a lasting effect.
Last edited by smokey on Sat Aug 07, 2010 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby TMrox » Sat Aug 07, 2010 3:52 am

Hi garyak,

Thanks very much for your reply.

I have had the same ophthalmologist over the last five years. She always checks for my eyesight with a computer and then with a battery of other tests, including trying different glasses where you have to tell whether you see some letters in the distance.

Both the computer and the old fashion tests showed that my eyesight improved from -3 (sphere) to -2.

I have not had optic neuritis ever. I have never had problems with my eyes in terms of pain, or seeing washed colours, or seeing double vision or anything like that. I don't have NMO (negative for aquaporine-4) and all my brain scans/ and optic nerve have been all clear in all the tests done on a six-month basis since I was diagnosed with Transverse Myelitis in dec 08. TM is a demyelination of the spinal cord only, so similar to MS, but not quite MS.

My myopia has been steady over the last 15 years, since I was first prescribed with glasses. Over the last five years both my eyes have been -3. Including the test I had 10 months ago.

This doc says that eyesight might improve over time. But she said that it was weird that my eyesight had improved so much, compared to the test I had just 10 months ago.

She repeated the tests, and all confirmed that my eyesight improved. Weird.

I can understand that some people might experience improvements in their Optic Neuritis in terms of seeing colours differently, or improving double-vision . But that is slightly different to having an actual improvement in myopia.Ummm

I have no idea whether this has anything to do with my angio. Bizarre! Anyway in the meantime I'm enjoying all the benefits (angio related or not). I'll be buying later on my new glasses. Any excuse is good for shopping therapy.

Rox
Diagnosed with Transverse Myelitis in December 2008. Inflammatory demyelination of the spinal cord (c3-c5). No MS, but still CCSVI.
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Postby dania » Sat Aug 07, 2010 4:33 am

garyak wrote:By 1 Point do you mean 1 diopter of myopia ( near-sightedness )?
Blur from being a few diopters myopic is mainly due to the shape and anatomy of the eye itself. Myopia does not get worse with MS. Also MS does not change the size of the eye itself. What does affect your vision in MS is Optic Neuritis.
So any improvement in myopia post-procedure should not in any way be associated with being liberated. Some factors need to be looked at including if your refraction to determine your amount of myopia was done by a trained ophthalmic technician , an ophthalmologist or an optometrist. How long was it that you last had this prescription determined. One diopter is quite a bit if it was only ten months. Many other systemic conditions can change your refraction .
I am an optometrist and on numerous occaisions a patient will have a stable prescription all the way through their 30's and 40's then have it start to improve significantly starting in the 40's and continue improving into the 50's.
Improved quality of vision post-procedure would be best explained by improved transmission through the optic nerve that had the previous neuritis.

The improvement could also be explained with the brain. We see also with our brain, not just the eyes.
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Postby TMrox » Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:00 am

well my azygous was 100% blocked by a membrane and the left internal jugular vein was more than 90% stenosed.

After the angio my migraines (among other issues) stopped. So I think that the blood draining from both my brain and spinal cord were compromised. Probably the stenosed jugular was responsible for the migraines. But I must confess I have not checked or read yet how for instance a reflux or stenosed jugular could affect eyesight when there is no optic neuritis or brain lesions. It might have nothing to do with it, just pure coincidence, who knows? any ideas will be welcomed.
Diagnosed with Transverse Myelitis in December 2008. Inflammatory demyelination of the spinal cord (c3-c5). No MS, but still CCSVI.
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Postby garyak » Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:38 pm

dania wrote:
garyak wrote:By 1 Point do you mean 1 diopter of myopia ( near-sightedness )?
Blur from being a few diopters myopic is mainly due to the shape and anatomy of the eye itself. Myopia does not get worse with MS. Also MS does not change the size of the eye itself. What does affect your vision in MS is Optic Neuritis.
So any improvement in myopia post-procedure should not in any way be associated with being liberated. Some factors need to be looked at including if your refraction to determine your amount of myopia was done by a trained ophthalmic technician , an ophthalmologist or an optometrist. How long was it that you last had this prescription determined. One diopter is quite a bit if it was only ten months. Many other systemic conditions can change your refraction .
I am an optometrist and on numerous occaisions a patient will have a stable prescription all the way through their 30's and 40's then have it start to improve significantly starting in the 40's and continue improving into the 50's.
Improved quality of vision post-procedure would be best explained by improved transmission through the optic nerve that had the previous neuritis.

The improvement could also be explained with the brain. We see also with our brain, not just the eyes.


Hi Dania, an improvement of one diopter of myopia is not a brain function but of shape and size of the eye that influences it. I agree that one diopter is a fair bit in a year also but numerous other reasons could cause this improvement. Since MS affects "vision" all these changes are legitimate posts though. In MS, the affects in vision are due to changes in the optic nerve however .
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Question for Garyak

Postby smokey » Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:27 pm

Hi Garyak, thanks for your comments. Do you think a change from 6/75 to 6/6 post procedure would be due to the effect of the procedure? My vision was a steady 6/75 in the left eye post onset of ON. When my vision deteriorated again after a couple of weeks post procedure I wondered if I had been 'seeing things' (sorry)!
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Postby dlb » Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:22 pm

I spoke at great length to a lady who had the procedure done several months ago. One of the first things she told me that she noticed after her treatment was "sharp & crisp vision". She commented that she didn't know that her vision wasn't just great until post procedure. It must have seemed a very significant change for her because she commented about it quite emphatically. Interesting that this has been noticed by others!
Gary.... so happy to hear that you have a probable referral. Looking forward to post treatment comments!
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Postby muse » Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:46 am

I noticed that "sharp & crisp vision" soon after the procedure as well and two days later I noticed that I would need new reading glasses too because the glasses were to strong now & I've got dizzy from that. Best Arne
p.s. Don’t worry too much it’s just a very heavy placebo affect!! ;)
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Postby TMrox » Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:48 am

Hi garayk,

Many thanks for your reply. I agree with you that the improvement in my eyesight seems to be related to a change in the shape of the eyes. You mentioned "numerous other reasons could cause this improvement".

Can u please mention which other reasons? Could this be metabolic, change in blood pressure in the head/eyes? Over the last year I've been very cautios with diet, diet supplements, vitamins, minerals, fish oils. It migth be crazy, but could any of this also helped my vision?

Sorry to ask silly questions, but I'm just very courios as which other factors could have improved my myopia. I'm in my mid-30s. Probably it could have been my age, getting close to the 40s?

Rox
Diagnosed with Transverse Myelitis in December 2008. Inflammatory demyelination of the spinal cord (c3-c5). No MS, but still CCSVI.
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Postby TMrox » Mon Aug 09, 2010 2:18 am

deleted duplicated post
Last edited by TMrox on Mon Aug 09, 2010 6:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby TMrox » Mon Aug 09, 2010 2:20 am

This is something posted by Dr Sclafani re cancer patients who have their internal jugular veins tie off in drastic neck procedures. It has nothing to do with my myopia getting better, but it might well tell how vision might get affected when the internal jugulars are tied off:

drsclafani wrote:i find it extraordinary that the naysayers can editorialize whatever they want in a biased manner and have it published rapidly.

It is true that there are papers that state that you can tie off (ligate) both internal jugular veins during radical neck surgery for cancer without developing permanent neurological consequences. (of course, these authors do NOT mention Multiple Sclerosis!)

This does not mean that surgeons ligate both jugular veins with impunity or that all surgeons do it.

Many ligate one and then come back another day to ligate the other because of the concerns about significant complications.in one paper, patients who had simultaneous one-stage bilateral neck dissection, often with jugular vein ligation, had a 10% mortality and an 11% major complication rate. But when sparing of the jugular vein was successful or if the procedure was done in two stages, mortality was only 3%. I guess it does matter.

Several authors have reported severe complications of unilateral or bilateral jugular vein ligation. these include bilateral and unilateral blindness, thought to be caused by intraorbital hemorrhages related to the venous hypertension. Other consequences of jugular vein ligation reported in the literature include intraorbital hemorrhage, pseudotumor cerebri, intracranial hemorrhages, double vision due to cranial nerve compressions, dural sinus thrombosis,

Diagnosed with Transverse Myelitis in December 2008. Inflammatory demyelination of the spinal cord (c3-c5). No MS, but still CCSVI.
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