This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Community: Knowledge & Support

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It's interesting that he was in a wheel chair for ten years and stopped using it, I had heard that sort of thing can't happen from the placebo effect.

This is interesting, at least specifically for Parkinsonian sham surgeries: dopamine is released by the brain as part of the placebo effect and dopamine is what's missing in Parkinson's disease.

Now if the placebo effect could only release myelin, as I have a touch of myelin missing, then we'd be getting somewhere....

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"However, the truth in science ultimately emerges, although sometimes it takes a very long time," Arthur Silverstein, Autoimmunity: A History of the Early Struggle for Recognition

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That would also by extension include it's limitations too... Come on Lyon don't just hone in on the lack of upside limits here....

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RRMS Dx'd 2007, first episode 2004. Bilateral stent placement, 3 on left, 1 stent on right, at Stanford August 2009. Watch my operation video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwc6QlLVtko, Virtually symptom free since, no relap

I can tell you one of its limits. It's impossible to stop people from chasing unicorns. Even the placebo effect is useless there.

They make good money trying, though, I hear.

"You are a booby, and I am going to put you into the booby hatch." -James Thurber "The Unicorn In The Garden"

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"Try - Just A Little Bit Harder" - Janis Joplin
CCSVI procedure Albany Aug 2010
'_MS' is over - if you want it
Patients sans/without patience

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Well, if I can walk normally from a placebo effect or a scientifically proven treatment, do I care as long as I can walk? And if seeing a unicorn cures me, I'll be on the lookout for them.

Kidding aside, the placebo effect has just as valid a place in curing as any "scientific" treatment.

another good read on placebo, on how they are getting stronger and baffling researchers:

http://www.wired.com/medtech/drugs/magazine/17-09/ff_placebo_effect?currentPage=all

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dx RRMS Jun. 2009...on Copaxone and LDN and waiting for my turn to be "liberated"<br />

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I was reading college level in the 9th grade, trust me, I know what you meant. In this case however, I was considering the source. So maybe the placebo effect may not have as much an impact as one would think eh? IE CCSVI and the treatment thereof is having a significant impact on a significant number of people, not so easily discounted as placebo effect, THAT can also be very true according to your original statement. Just didn't want that part to get ignored, since at first blush one probably wouldn't be inferring downside to plaebo effect, only that it's impact has no known upper limits. Catch my drift?

Thanks for the red highlights though, nothing like colorful language

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RRMS Dx'd 2007, first episode 2004. Bilateral stent placement, 3 on left, 1 stent on right, at Stanford August 2009. Watch my operation video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwc6QlLVtko, Virtually symptom free since, no relap

I was reading college level in the 9th grade, trust me, I know what you meant. In this case however, I was considering the source. So maybe the placebo effect may not have as much an impact as one would think eh? IE CCSVI and the treatment thereof is having a significant impact on a significant number of people, not so easily discounted as placebo effect, THAT can also be very true according to your original statement. Just didn't want that part to get ignored, since at first blush one probably wouldn't be inferring downside to plaebo effect, only that it's impact has no known upper limits. Catch my drift?

Thanks for the red highlights though, nothing like colorful language

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RRMS Dx'd 2007, first episode 2004. Bilateral stent placement, 3 on left, 1 stent on right, at Stanford August 2009. Watch my operation video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwc6QlLVtko, Virtually symptom free since, no relap

Well, it has been almost 48 hours since my liberation. I have better balance- that is undeniable- and things are very clear in some ways.

I think the Plavix is making me a bit woozy today- may be a bit before I get used to it- but overall I can't blame this on placebo because I am uncertain how I would get placebo results where I do not expect any results.

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Three veins angioplastied.  One renewed life.  

But what kind of results does your subconscious expect? I hear that the subconscious mind can amplify the placebo effect.

This sham surgery was the same surgery except for the administration of a drug? The patients still had BRAIN surgery, that has to have some effect doesn't it? And was the subsequent decline because he didn't get the drug or because whatever they did to his brain healed?

That is my biggest concern about the Buffalo blind trial. If they have the same surgery except the balloon, who is to say there is no improvement to be expected? Maybe I am oversimplifying, but back to the plumbing analogies, aren't they snaking the drain? If they clear some minor obstruction with the catheter and someone feels better, is that placebo?

For this very reason, I agree with the name liberation treatment. If you can game the placebo effect - go for it!