ECTRIMS - Zamboni - oct 13

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

ECTRIMS - Zamboni - oct 13

Postby Cece » Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:09 pm

Just saw this on Facebook, this is excellent!
European Charcot Foundation
Symposium
ECTRIMS 2010 Göteborg
October 13, 2010
12.30 – 14.00
“Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency.
Relation to Multiple Sclerosis?”
Chair and Moderator G. Comi
12.30 – 12.35 Introduction O.R. Hommes
12.35 – 12.45 CCSVI: from hypothesis to reality
P. Zamboni
12.45 – 13.00 CCSVI. Relation to Multiple Sclerosis
R. Zivadinov
13.00 – 13.15 Doppler Sonography of venous outflow
of the brain in Multiple Sclerosis
F. Doepp
13.15 – 13.30 Questions on CCSVI in Multiple Sclerosis
O. Khan
13.30 – 14.00 Discussion

http://www.charcot-ms.org/dbimg/ECF%20S ... 202010.pdf
"However, the truth in science ultimately emerges, although sometimes it takes a very long time," Arthur Silverstein, Autoimmunity: A History of the Early Struggle for Recognition
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Postby Chrystal » Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:21 pm

Wonderful!! Thank you soooo much for posting this, Cece!!!
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Postby Drury » Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:06 pm

Cece,

You amaze me!

Thanks,
Drury
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Postby Cece » Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:32 pm

I'm pretty sure I cribbed it from Joan. :oops:

But why it's significant: ECTRIMS is a significant highly-esteemed European neurologists-only symposium. Last year Dr. Zamboni was not invited to present, but had a poster: <shortened url>

This year he's given ten minutes to present, followed by Dr. Zivadinov for fifteen minutes, then the opposing team comes to bat: Dr. Doepp and Dr. Khan have both either done a study with negative results or presented a negative editorial or something like that. Then a full hour for discussion.

Girlgeek, I definitely need a video of this one!! :)
"However, the truth in science ultimately emerges, although sometimes it takes a very long time," Arthur Silverstein, Autoimmunity: A History of the Early Struggle for Recognition
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Postby Rokkit » Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:15 am

Cece wrote:Then a full hour for discussion.

Unfortunately, it looks like only a half hour discussion to me. Oh well, we have to start somewhere.
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Postby Cece » Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:22 am

A full half hour, you are right. :)
"However, the truth in science ultimately emerges, although sometimes it takes a very long time," Arthur Silverstein, Autoimmunity: A History of the Early Struggle for Recognition
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Postby Rokkit » Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:35 am

It would be pretty easy for anyone to filibuster most of a half hour discussion. Hopefully there will be an unbiased moderator who will not permit that. Not that anyone would be inclined to try that, of course.
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Postby frodo » Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:46 pm

Cece wrote:Dr. Doepp and Dr. Khan have both either done a study with negative results or presented a negative editorial or something like that. Then a full hour for discussion.


Well. Doepp & Khan study is irrelevant from a scientific point of view!!! After Zivadinov study, nobody should dare to present a negative study. It has no value.

It is enough to have ONE positive blinded study to discredit one hundred negatives!!!

If I make a blinded study with a doppler machine (I'm not a doctor) I will find nothing. If 100 friends like me do the same, we will have a lot of negative results. But is enough one positive (Zivadinov) to show that we are morons without a clue about how to use a Doppler machine.

All that Doepp & Khan can get from this is a lesson about how a Doppler works.
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Postby muse » Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:05 pm

"Moderator" Dr. Comi (is fighting against Prof. Zamboni in Italy!) has received personal compensation for activities with Bayer-Schering, Serono Symposia International, Merck Serono International, Teva Neuroscience, and Biogen-Dompe as a consultant.
<shortened url> He's also The President of the Italian Neurology Society http://www.neuro.it/consiglio-direttivo.php

Dr Khan has received research support from the National MS Society (NMSS), the National Institutes of Health (NIH), Teva Neuroscience, Genzyme Corporation, Biogen Idec, Novartis Pharmaceuticals, and Acorda Therapeutics; consultancy and speaking honoraria from Teva Neuroscience, Biogen Idec, Novartis Pharmaceuticals, and Bayer Healthcare. <shortened url>

Dr Doepp hasn't any clue how to perform a proper doppler sonography with the protocol of Drs Zamboni, Simka etc. etc. & he isn't able to find any stenosis either but he's not to shy to give a lecture on that topic at the ECTRIMS in Göteborg: http://www.charcot-ms.org/dbimg/ECF%20S ... 202010.pdf
Holy Moly, what a scientific MESS - Welcome to the reality of the "An[n]als of Neurology"! http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_i ... 297&ref=mf
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Postby MrSuccess » Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:17 pm

Muse - don't you worry about Dr. Zamboni ........... he has lot's of experience dealing with hostile CCSVI opponents . :)

I am confident both Dr. Zamboni and Dr. Zivadinov are relishing the chance to educate a whole lot of people.

The Scientists that they are ......... they back up their work ...with FACTS.

What I'd pay to be a fly on the wall in Goteborg. :wink:


Another date to circle on the calender ...... and ANOTHER .... CCSVI milestone.


Salute Dr. Zamboni & Zivadov :!: :!: :!:





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Postby muse » Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:35 pm

I’m not worry about Prof. Zamboni, not at all MrS.! I’m just as mad as hell because of that insanely neurological second-rate theatre in the name of sci$$$ce.
There are people with CCSVI in MS out there who are dying right now in front of our eyes and that bunch of criminals is playing god & prevents actively those who suffer more damage every day until they die to supply with first aid.
I’m just furious!!! :evil:
Arne
"MS" doesn't exist! - CCSVI dx Nov.2009, 1. angio LVJ & RVJ June 2010, 2. angio RVJ April 2011, January 2012 2. restenosis, reversed after ~1 year intake of high dosage Magnesium only. ThisIsCCSVIinMS: http://tinyurl.com/nwy5x58
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Postby MrSuccess » Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:04 pm

Hi Arne - yes .... I agree with you ....... there is no good reason to proceed so slowly with CCSVI intervention .

Those before and after CCSVI video's are really something . Add in one hell of a lot of CCSVI testimonials ........ that are mounting ........ as more pwMS are getting access to the procedure . :!:

I like the confidence Dr. Zamboni has consistantly displayed ..... in the face of - often fierce - critic's .... of his scientific discovery .

I wonder if CCSVI critic's would have the courage to enter a PRO-CCSVI symposium ..... and state their case .....

But of course ..... it would not be a hostile environment ......... as the CCSVI medical professionals are OPEN MINDED and RESPECTFUL men and women . And we are damn proud of them.

There is so much great CCSVI news happening ..... and I am looking forward to the Goteborg bun toss. :wink:

North or South Island ?


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Postby Cece » Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:39 pm

For me there is a sense of betrayal or that this is not what I expected from the neurologists or from the MS Societies. When a break-through like this comes along, I'd have thought they'd have been more willing to say, hey, we don't know if this is the real deal yet, but it's logical, it's worth funding and exploring. Instead there was such negativity and they have held up the process. They not only failed to find the break-through, they also failed to recognise the break-through when someone else found it. And they're the ones whom we'd put our trust in that they would find something, anything, to slow down or halt or reverse this disease someday; I would never have thought there would be IRs involved.

Muse, thank you for supplying the background on Dr. Doepp, Khan and Comi. I can't believe Dr. Comi is fighting against Dr. Zamboni! When I saw that he was the president of the Italian MS Society I thought, oh, Italian, he's right there at the birthplace of ccsvi, he's going to be progressive about this and be on our side!
"However, the truth in science ultimately emerges, although sometimes it takes a very long time," Arthur Silverstein, Autoimmunity: A History of the Early Struggle for Recognition
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Postby muse » Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:52 pm

Mr.S., I’m living on the North Island.

Cece, Pino Cucci http://ccsvi-sm.org/ wrote about it on facebook and I guess he knows a lot about Italian tensions. ;)

Best
Arne
"MS" doesn't exist! - CCSVI dx Nov.2009, 1. angio LVJ & RVJ June 2010, 2. angio RVJ April 2011, January 2012 2. restenosis, reversed after ~1 year intake of high dosage Magnesium only. ThisIsCCSVIinMS: http://tinyurl.com/nwy5x58
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