A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.


Postby CaptBoo » Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:08 pm

Does anybody have a theory as to why LDN would help prevent (in some cases) further MS relapses if those symptoms were caused by CCSVI? My MS fog won't let me wrap my head around this.
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Postby Cece » Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:00 pm

LDN is known to be an angiogenesis agonist. It promotes the growth of new blood vessels. My theory is that it helps the body build better collaterals around the ccsvi blockages, thereby somewhat relieving the condition.
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Postby 1eye » Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:10 pm

So not just prevention of symptoms, but depending on your new collateral growth, full remission of the MS attacks. After a while, it may be that no new growth is possible for lots of reasons. Then you stop getting remissions, but the damage can continue, and reflux, slowed perfusion, hypoxia, and iron deposits can mess you up real good.

The good news is that CVMs are pretty much done forming by the time you are an adult.

Bad news is that this progressive damage is cumulative.

Also, angiogenesis can be the final step in precancer becoming cancer. Not always good. But LDN is supposed to treat cancer. I can't really wrap my head around the whole thing. But if LDN caused cancer, somebody might have noticed by now.

Apparently *foods* can be more effective than man-made antagonists or agonists of angiogenesis. So eating the right things sounds like a really good bet.

JMHO, and I ain't no doctor.
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Postby 1eye » Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:28 pm

another thread on same topic -- but it's all still speculative. :)
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Postby scotland » Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:25 am

Hi All

Heres my take.

Due to ccsvi the blood backs up and gets deoxygenated, potentially leaks out a bit from the circulatory system, causing the auto immune reaction, as the blood is not where it is suppost to be, and or carries some sort of virus, maybe epstein barr etc.

The tcells have crossed the blood brain barrier, where they should not be, and away goes the attack on the nervous system for some reason.

I think all LDN does is reboot the immune system by increasing endorphins, which regulate it and help us all feel better.

I dont think the ldn does much beside settle down the immune system, thus reports of people taking in and symptoms resoling very quickly.

My two cents, as I am short on sense.
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Postby Algis » Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:53 am

and gets deoxygenated,

Arteries bring oxygenated blood to the organs; veins drains de-oxygenated blood from the organs (except pulmonary and umbilical).

It is a misconception to think the the stagnating/refluxing blood in veins "gets" de-oxygenated. It is already.
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Postby girlgeek33 » Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:40 am

It has often been said that anything that benefits your body, will benefit your MS. Even though it hasn't been studied in detail specifically with MS, especially not considering CCSVI, LDN has major benefits. Watch the video on how LDN works, you can search YouTube for it. LDN basically gives the immune system a restart, allow g it to work better overall. Obviously, this is a benefit to your body.

Also, the immune system has definitely been triggered. Considering CCSVI, the major debate is what came first. I'm on team CCSVI. We were most likely born with defective veins. Also, there is evidence that the lesion activity exists prior to immune system activity. These kind of things get swept under the rug though because it seems there is more $$$ in this primarily being an autoimmune disease.

We don't just have CCSVI, we also have MS. They still need to understand everything more. So I agree we need studies to understand the implications of treating CCSVI and the course of disease for MS. I don't believe they have to wait to treat all of us though. Take the study groups and document every detail of everything going on. Have the full range of patients. Each DMD, LDN, no meds. I don't think they should be doing sham procedures. They already know angioplasty works and have never, ever done shams in any other angioplasty study.

Just my opinion.... ;)
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