Significant: not just hyoxemic but hypoglycemic brain cells

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Significant: not just hyoxemic but hypoglycemic brain cells

Postby Cece » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:06 pm

Abstract
A mechanism is proposed that may explain the factors that initiate a multiple sclerosis (MS) lesion. It is based upon the following two hypotheses: (i) there is a lower stimulus threshold for upregulating the mechanisms that result in leukocyte infiltration in individuals predisposed to developing MS; (ii) the MS lesion is initiated as a reduction in blood flow to a localized region of white matter. This reduction in blood flow leads to: (a) degenerative white matter changes affecting oligodendrocytes; (b) upregulation of chemokines in the endothelial cells and/or glial cells; and (c) upregulation of cell adhesion molecules on endothelial cells. Signals from the hypoxemic and hypoglycemic glial cells, likely involving myelin molecules and cytokines, result in an inflammatory immune response that results in rampant demyelination. Evidence supporting the proposed mechanism is presented, as well as suggestions on how to test the validity of the proposal.


from the Juurlink paper: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9824835

I think this may be significant. We've focused on the lack of oxygen in the brain. But what else does the brain need? Glucose. Huge amounts of glucose.

This paper is from a neurologist with stroke and MS experience, so someone who straddles the two disciplines.

So if blood flow slows down both the oxygen and the glucose to the brain, it's a double whammy. Our brain cells are starving and suffocating. Not just suffocating.

What happens in anorexia when the brain is starving? If it can't get glucose, it converts some of the fat in myelin into glucose, creating ketones as a by-product. Atrophy of the brain is an eventual result.

We see atrophy of the brain in MS.

I am not suggesting we have anorexic bodies, but that we may have anorexic brains.

So what might help, other than the obvious (getting the venoplasty procedure)? Maintaining even blood sugar levels. Having high blood sugar levels would probably be ok; what you don't want is that dip to low blood sugar levels. Exercise but not too hard. Follow the Best Bet Diet. Think like a diabetic and carry a candy bar with in case your blood sugar drops. Eat more frequent, smaller meals with protein and fat to help everything digest at a nice even pace.

We are all caretakers of the bodies and brain we were given, even if they were fixer-uppers right from the start, they're all we've got....
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Postby PCakes » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:12 pm

Cece.. one of your best!!! thank you!

This is going to sound very uneducated but.. could this be cause for extraordinary sugar cravings..and or weight loss?
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Postby 1eye » Sat Aug 28, 2010 2:18 pm

Holy wick you guys. I was just bellyaching (I used to live on a farm called Belly Acres) about how I feel so weak and shaky and maybe I'm going diabetic. Fruit seems to help, but not as much as raw sugar. Is this news of fresh disaster? Aarghh. But I have lots of little victories too. And it hasn't been long.
"Try - Just A Little Bit Harder" - Janis Joplin
CCSVI procedure Albany Aug 2010
'MS' is over - if you want it
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Postby MS_HOPE » Sat Aug 28, 2010 2:29 pm

Very interesting, Cece, though I'm not a doctor or scientist, so much is over my head. This info may clarify something I've experienced but couldn't explain.

When I added a particular nutritional supplement to my diet back in 2003, which contained eight particular saccharides, or sugars, within a week I started noticing what became significant symptom improvements - in my fatigue, weakness, brain fog, and heat intolerance, as well as the disappearance of a relatively new pain in my right arm.

The improvements were life-changing for me, and for two other people with MS whom I know. Tried to share this with everyone I knew, but skepticism abounded (sound familiar?), and after a few years I gave up trying to convince anyone.

Years ago, according to one doctor with much experience with this dietary supplement, in a group of hundreds of MS patients about 1/3 of them experienced significant improvements ("life-changing", like lucky me), about 1/3 had some improvements, and 1/3 or so had no apparent improvements. Eerily similar to Dr. Siskin's findings with CCSVI venoplasty!

When I originally tried the supplement I was just confident that it wouldn't hurt, and theoretically would supply essential sugars (the carbohydrate equivalent, IMO, to essential amino acids that comprise proteins, and the essential fatty acids that comprise fats) otherwise lacking in our nutrient-depleted modern diet. But the importance of the sugars was underscored for me when I saw more and more evidence of the diverse, crucial roles that glycoproteins and glycolipids play in human physiology. (The "glyco"- part is the sugar.) Then I found out these sugars help stimulate stem cell production, which is huge for healing and regeneration of cells, including neurons. Better minds than mine can explore PubMed for MS connections here!

Anyway, for financial reasons and to see if they were still helping me, I stopped taking the particular supplement, and have been trying possible alternatives that are less costly. I've noticed a decline in my condition, but plan to test another alternative before resuming the original one.

In the meantime, I'm on Dr. Siskin's list for angioplasty! CCSVI truly takes many of the MSteries out of MS, and opens so many new avenues of potentially-fruitful research that will lead to total eradication of this disease!
CCSVI:  Making Sense of MS
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Postby Cece » Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:41 pm

PCakes, yes, it would likely lead to food cravings in general and sugar cravings in particular. Sugar is easy and quickly metabolized, so it'd get there quickly if the brain is putting out the distress signal.

No, I don't think weight loss is likely, except for in the brain itself.... 8O
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Postby blossom » Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:44 pm

"dr.cece", i have been told by some dr.'s not all that i have hyperglycemia. until the last few yrs. i was a dedicated chocoholic and had to have my sweets or i really did feel worse i craved them. i have tried to steer clear of stuff like that for a long time now but i still have my moments now and then. the other day my brother brought into my house chocholate doughnuts--well--but after i ate them i really felt rough even weaker. i'm not a diabetic. i do the best i can under the circumstances as i'm sure many are doing.
anyway, there was a co. called mannatech that had come out with a glyconutrient product that was supposed to be the overlooked thing we need and was supposed to help all kinds of things one being ms. i have tried different alternative stuff. you can get these gluconutrients in other brands but mannatech was supposed to be tops. ? i never pursued it for whatever reason-money?-or just didn't. sometimes you just kinda take a break and say whatever. but now, with your find on gylconutrients maybe trying this would be worth a shot. it kind of jump started my mind and all the read i had done on that. there is actually a good bit of info. on it when you look at it from the natural healing info. sites.
just wonder what your input is on a product like this? you are very good at understanding the science. are these products addressing what the scientific paper you just brought to our attention is? i think it is but not for sure. i've been feeling a little sour lately maybe i need sweetened up a bit.
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Postby blossom » Sat Aug 28, 2010 4:07 pm

pcakes, have you been tested for diabetes lately? a friend of mine was looseing weight without trying and when she got checked her sugar was sky high. not trying to scare you just bringing it to your attention to maybe check out.
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Postby Cece » Sat Aug 28, 2010 4:22 pm

I can't say one way or other about Mannatech; I'm not approaching this as that there are any missing sugar nutrients we need, but that overall the basic, not-at-all-lacking-in-our-diets glucose is not getting to the brain because the blocked blood flow is keeping the deoxygenated, de-glucosed blood in our brains too long.

So maybe sugar cravings would be the brain's effort for us to elevate the glucose in our blood to a high level, just so that some or enough gets to the brain.

This is speculatory, and a lot of spring-boarding off of one mention of hypoglycemia being at play in glial cells; I have not read more than the abstract of the article linked about, and I owe my knowledge of its existence to Jim at Facebook and Joan as well.

Here is more food for thought:
wikipedia wrote:Many things affect one's ability to exert self-control, but self-control particularly requires sufficient glucose levels in the brain. Exerting self-control depletes glucose. Research has found that reduced glucose, and poor glucose tolerance (reduced ability to transport glucose to the brain) are tied to lower performance in tests of self-control, particularly in difficult new situations.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self_control

an article on how the brain's uptake of glucose is affected during exercise:
http://jp.physoc.org/content/568/1/323.full.pdf+html

famine response:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_response

I'm looking for clarification of how the brain feeds itself when plasma glucose is not available. It's been years since I read up on this, I might have it wrong with the myelin/ketone connection.
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Postby PCakes » Sat Aug 28, 2010 4:25 pm

hey Blossom, thanks..good idea. I may have already, so many tests can't keep them all straight. I also have some thyroid cysts so this may contribute to the weight loss.

I really find the glucose reference very interesting. Sweets are a staple in my family and no one is overweight. My mom used to say, with a wink and a yumm.. "i love sweets so much that i wonder if there is something wrong with me".
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Postby PCakes » Sat Aug 28, 2010 4:30 pm

Thanks Cece, :)

Research has found that reduced glucose, and poor glucose tolerance (reduced ability to transport glucose to the brain) are tied to lower performance in tests of self-control, particularly in difficult new situations.[2]


wow ..rock and a hard place.. the ability to resist sweets is governed by sweets.. (a rough masacre of the theory)
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Postby Cece » Sat Aug 28, 2010 4:52 pm

Eat the sweets, then you'll be able to resist the sweets. :D

Here's an erudite article on brain metabolism:
http://www.acnp.org/g4/gn401000064/CH064.HTML

And while I can find evidence that there is myelin loss in anorexics and that ketones are the alternative energy source if your brain is low in glucose, I cannot find evidence that myelin is being converted into ketones. Myelin is fat but ketones are produced when fat is converted by the liver into ketones. (Ketones are what makes your breath smell like nail polish remover if you're on the Atkins diet; your body breaks fat down into ketones to be used as an energy source if no carbs are available.)
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Postby PCakes » Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:22 pm

that would be tough to prove.. how would the source of the fat being transformed be identified? How is the fat carried to the liver?

lay explanation of the brain - carbohydrate connection http://www.fi.edu/learn/brain/carbs.html

erudite antonym --> pCakes :lol:
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Postby PCakes » Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:55 pm

Cece,

Similar but different discussion starting over on facebook.. http://www.facebook.com/notes/ccsvi-in- ... 8794697210
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Postby HappyPoet » Sat Aug 28, 2010 6:45 pm

WOW.

Keep going guys . . .

Two sweet forward, one swoot backward = HP's contribution

:D
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Postby blossom » Sat Aug 28, 2010 7:47 pm

hey guys, do you think maybe we got ms because we are all too sweet and loveable for our own good? geesh-damned if we do and damned if we don't.-----i hope you all know i'm kidding.----all this science is making my brain hurt---I NEED SWEETS!! i'M FACEING A SITUATION!!
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