What My Neurologist Says About CCSVI

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Postby Cece » Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:51 pm

PCakes wrote:To share one of my own personal favorites.. in response to the question "Dr...what is your opinion of ccsvi?" he replied.."what do you do for a living?".. puzzled, I answered.. to which he responded .."and how would you like it if someone told you how to do your job?"

Wow! Defensive...and can't this be flipped, aren't the neurologists trying to tell the IRs how to do the IRs job? In Canada someone is telling Sandy MacDonald how to (not be allowed to) do his job.
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Postby PCakes » Sun Sep 12, 2010 2:27 pm

Cece wrote:
PCakes wrote:To share one of my own personal favorites.. in response to the question "Dr...what is your opinion of ccsvi?" he replied.."what do you do for a living?".. puzzled, I answered.. to which he responded .."and how would you like it if someone told you how to do your job?"

Wow! Defensive...and can't this be flipped, aren't the neurologists trying to tell the IRs how to do the IRs job? In Canada someone is telling Sandy MacDonald how to (not be allowed to) do his job.


Yes, Cece. I came away from that appt feeling very sad for this misguided man. I am fortunate in my career and credit much of my success to spirited dialogue and constructive criticism. I can imagine nothing other?

As you know, Dr MacDonald is one of the many good ones up here. The following is an extract from a letter he wrote in response to Dr David Spence's attempt to debunk CCSVI...

The venous theory has been available since 1935 and was recently reactivated by Dr. Zamboni and others. We have tested over 300 patients with MS and have found blocked jugular veins and other venous anomalies in over 90% of them. I and other vascular surgeons and interventional radiologists are prevented from treating these blocked veins in patients with M.S. in Canada, resulting in many going overseas or to the United States for the treatment, which Dr. Spence calls "robbery."

It is imperative Dr. Spence and others who are so suspicious of CCSVI give it serious attention. Patients with M.S. deserve no less.

Sandy McDonald, RVT, MD, FRSCS, FACS Vascular Surgeon Medical Director, Barrie Vascular Imaging 50 Alliance Blvd., Barrie Ontario
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Postby CureIous » Sun Sep 12, 2010 2:27 pm

Comes down to expectation of privacy. In a public arena, no expectation for the most part. In private conversations, for the most part (and all of our states have their own laws on this), consent and/or the possibility that one may be recorded is the law.

For instance, when you call these service centers it says, "this call may be monitored for quality assurance purposes". Hardy har har. No it aint, it's to provide a perfectly legal recording of the conversation should it need be used against you in the future.

In private, there is an expectation of privacy, and as mentioned before, every state and/or jurisdiction has it's own flavor of this law.

If you call me in California, I HAVE to warn that the conversation may be taped, if I plan on doing such. In other states of course no consent is needed, unless you are not a party to the conversation and are taping someone else's, then neither is consenting, and thats illegal.

Now, if it were me I might say: "here's the conversation I had with my Dr as I recall".

But thats just me lol.

It is interesting whenever we get some insight into the mind of neurologists from across the spectrum. Some surprise us, some don't.
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Re: What My Neurologist Says About CCSVI

Postby scorpion » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:54 pm

ConstableComfortable wrote:I snuck in a recorder to my latest appointment with my Neuro. I asked what he thought about ccsvi and here's the transcript...

http://constablecomfortable.blogspot.com/


Is this the new thing now? Bringing tape recorders to neuro appointments? Where was he rude? The guy engages in a normal conversation and gets his comments posted, unknowingly, on a MS blog site. Nice.
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Re: What My Neurologist Says About CCSVI

Postby 1eye » Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:28 pm

scorpion wrote:
ConstableComfortable wrote:I snuck in a recorder to my latest appointment with my Neuro. I asked what he thought about ccsvi and here's the transcript...

http://constablecomfortable.blogspot.com/


Is this the new thing now? Bringing tape recorders to neuro appointments? Where was he rude? The guy engages in a normal conversation and gets his comments posted, unknowingly, on a MS blog site. Nice.


I wouldn't say it is very new at all. The technology has existed for many years. It has been used against the patient and much more rarely, the doctor. The important point here remains: no one, including the taper, was identified. All this belly-aching is over someone only identified as some anonymous person's neurologist. I would feel sorry for them and indignant and so forth maybe, if anyone were named. But they weren't. Only the profession was identified.

I suppose if a specific neurologist recognized the conversation as his, and the patient as his, he could take it up with the patient. I doubt the conversation is even identifiable, because it is so generic. We might do a study by collecting generic exchanges and identifying them with the exact meaning of the underlying statement. We would not have identified anybody, but we would have identified the 'stock answer' and disarmed it somewhat.

The neurological community members are waging a propaganda war that can only be won by identifying the 'stock' untruths and half-truths used as weapons. They do not outnumber us, but they have a lot of clout. I see nothing wrong, exactly the opposite, in analyzing and understanding these tactic.

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Postby ozarkcanoer » Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:43 pm

My husband and I have taken a recorder to many of my doctor appointments. My memory is so poor I never remember everything that is discussed at any appointment. But we always ask the doctor for permission first : "Do you mind if we record this session ?".

More often because I want my doctors to be open and frank with me I do NOT record my appointments. I feel that what is said is a private communication between me and my doctor. I may reveal to others the gist of what my doctor says, but I would never quote him word for word. I want to maintain the mutual trust that makes for a good doctor/patient relationship. If I decide I don't like a doctor I just don't see him/her anymore. I've already dropped one new doctor this summer for just this reason.

I am lucky to have three doctors who I respect and trust, including my MS neurologist, even though he is very neutral toward CCSVI.

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Postby 1eye » Sun Sep 12, 2010 6:58 pm

ozarkcanoer wrote:I would never quote him word for word. I want to maintain the mutual trust that makes for a good doctor/patient relationship.
ozarkcanoer


You might if you were sure nobody would recognize it. I don't think doctors are concerned with the ownership of their words. For instance if my doctor used the words: "suppress the immune system" I don't think he could claim to own that phrase.
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