Upper cervical spine chiropractic adjustments

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Postby DrKoontzDC » Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:36 pm

Claire,

A jolt such as that will send a tremendous force through the whole spine. While it's not a direct trauma to the neck it is an insult to your spine and could easily cause problems throughout. Not every problem sustained from an injury is visible or diagnosable immediately after sustaining an injury. Often times certain problems take time to manifest themselves as a result of the injury and by that time most people don't associate the previous injury with the problem.

Not every chiropractor is trained in doing Upper Cervical Specific Chiropractor specializing with the Atlas and Axis. From just the description of your fall and the fact that you have now been diagnosed with SPMS tells me that most likely you would benefit from Upper Cervical Chiropractic.
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Postby DrKoontzDC » Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:10 pm

dania wrote:Dr. Koontz, I have MS, SPMS now. There are 2 symptoms I have that are very different than other MS patients. I have to look up at the ceiling, to have any strength. When I was still able to walk, I always kept my head tilted upwards to walk. If I looked down I was unable to move. Other MS patients when they look up lose their balance. I am the exact opposite, When I look down it is like the light switch has been turned off and I lose all my strength.
The other difference is I never suffer from fatigue.
Any thoughts?


Dania,

Are you unable to walk at all now? or can you walk if assisted? The kind of cervical curve you have in your neck along with how your upper cervical area is misaligned can play a large role in your symptoms. Without x-rays I couldn't tell for certain but it sounds like it's possible you have a very straight neck or possibly even a reverse curve. Also, and more importantly, the fact that when you look down your symptoms get worse tells me that your Atlas could be tilted inferiorly. In general the normal angle for the Atlas should be between 8 - 10 degrees slightly superior. Above 10 is an abnormally superior angle which is what is seen a majority of the time. Below 8 degrees is considered to be inferior and is much less common but can cause quite a few more problems. If your Atlas is already tilted inferiorly it would make sense that your symptoms get worse when you tilt your head downward as you would be increasing the angle even further which would put more pressure on the brainstem. If you have any x-rays it would be a great help if I could see those. However standard x-rays will only show partially what we need to look at. To get the best picture of what's going on you should have some x-rays taken by a chiropractor trained in doing Specific Upper Cervical Chiropractic.
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Postby DrKoontzDC » Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:52 pm

@ NZer1,

Muscle testing can be good if used properly though it is a subjective way of obtaining information. Depending on how strong or mild the reactions are to the muscle testing leaves the results open to interpretation from the examiner and inter-examiner reproducibility can be highly suspect as a result of that. For basic chiropractic care and being able to show that a problem exists muscle testing works fine. Some Upper Cervical Chiropractors use it to show the relationship between strength and a misaligned Atlas or Axis. What they won't do is use it to determine what to adjust or when to adjust. When it comes down to whether or not I'm going to make an Upper Cervical adjustment I'd rather know there's interference than guess based on muscle testing. This is why I prefer to use an instrument which gives me an objective way to measure whether or not there is nerve interference.
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Postby DrKoontzDC » Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:55 pm

@ Ale,

It's great to hear that you are beginning to see results. The fact that some of your symptoms decreased, even for a short time, shows promise. Your chiropractor is right, it will take time for the nerves to heal and as that happens you should slowly begin to see a further reduction in your symptoms. Keep us posted as to your progress. I look forward to hearing more.
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Postby dania » Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:26 am

DrKoontzDC wrote:
dania wrote:Dr. Koontz, I have MS, SPMS now. There are 2 symptoms I have that are very different than other MS patients. I have to look up at the ceiling, to have any strength. When I was still able to walk, I always kept my head tilted upwards to walk. If I looked down I was unable to move. Other MS patients when they look up lose their balance. I am the exact opposite, When I look down it is like the light switch has been turned off and I lose all my strength.
The other difference is I never suffer from fatigue.
Any thoughts?


Dania,

Are you unable to walk at all now? or can you walk if assisted? The kind of cervical curve you have in your neck along with how your upper cervical area is misaligned can play a large role in your symptoms. Without x-rays I couldn't tell for certain but it sounds like it's possible you have a very straight neck or possibly even a reverse curve. Also, and more importantly, the fact that when you look down your symptoms get worse tells me that your Atlas could be tilted inferiorly. In general the normal angle for the Atlas should be between 8 - 10 degrees slightly superior. Above 10 is an abnormally superior angle which is what is seen a majority of the time. Below 8 degrees is considered to be inferior and is much less common but can cause quite a few more problems. If your Atlas is already tilted inferiorly it would make sense that your symptoms get worse when you tilt your head downward as you would be increasing the angle even further which would put more pressure on the brainstem. If you have any x-rays it would be a great help if I could see those. However standard x-rays will only show partially what we need to look at. To get the best picture of what's going on you should have some x-rays taken by a chiropractor trained in doing Specific Upper Cervical Chiropractic.

Thank you for responding. I can walk about 10 feet with a walker. Dragging my left leg. Do you know any Upper Cervical Trained chiros in the Montreal Canada area?
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Postby DrKoontzDC » Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:26 pm

dania wrote:Do you know any Upper Cervical Trained chiros in the Montreal Canada area?


I have found 2 in Montreal and they both seem to be working at an office with the same name. Whether or not they work together or if one bought the practice from the other I do not know. The office name and phone number are the same but there are 2 different addresses.

Dr. Christopher Halder
Centre Chiropratique Vitalité
Ile des Soeurs/Montreal
Quebec, CANADA j0r1t0
Work: 514-769-0007
christopherhalder@videotron.ca
Technique: HIO Toggle Recoil

Dr. Isabelle Cazeaux
Centre Chiropratique Vitalité
1 Place du commerce bureau 230
Montreal
Quebec, CANADA H3E 1A2
Work: 514-769-0007
Fax: 514-769-3897
Technique: HIO Toggle Recoil and Atlas Orthogonality


If you contact them and begin care with one of them please let us know. I'd love to hear how things go.
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Postby costumenastional » Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:47 am

Funny how things work sometimes.

While Dr Flanagan was trying to open my eyes, God was giving me extreme neck pain, as a sign I should listen to the good doctor.
Thankfully, it didn't take long for him to send me to Dr Koontz.

It was during the same period that my boss was complaining for serious neck pains. She told me that she had chronic problems but lately it had become unbearable. I remember both of us trying to move around the office like robots due to neck pain. She is 35 and she had been told that there were issues in her cervical spine in the past.

I told her about chiropractic adjustments but given the fact that she is too cool for school I didn't bother trying to make a point. It was more of a reference. After all, I knew the time for her would come and I had more serious problems to attend to.
While I was waiting for Dr Flanagan to find an upper cervical specialist in Greece I saw an orthopedist who was laughing at chiropractors. Of course, according to him my neck pain had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with my MS symptoms. As far as the neck pain was concerned, I should correct the way I sit in front of the PC...

A couple of days later I met Michael and I discovered the truth. That simple. My boss went on to listen an orthopedist's valuable advice instead. We all know better about doctors than she does, so I suspected that next morning she would wear a collar and she would have been prescribed a ton of anti inflammatory drugs.
This is why I couldn't stop laughing when she came in. They are so predictable...
A month has passed and while the drugs made her sick for a whole week the pain subsided. She gave up on the collar a couple of weeks ago also.

Today, she announced to me that she is thinking that she should come with me to Dr Koontz. The pain is back, her hand has gone numb and she might have realized that drugs don't straighten bones.

And for those who wonder why I wrote this in here...
Michael, please start thinking about giving me a discount haha
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Postby dania » Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:18 am

DrKoontzDC wrote:
dania wrote:Do you know any Upper Cervical Trained chiros in the Montreal Canada area?


I have found 2 in Montreal and they both seem to be working at an office with the same name. Whether or not they work together or if one bought the practice from the other I do not know. The office name and phone number are the same but there are 2 different addresses.

Dr. Christopher Halder
Centre Chiropratique Vitalité
Ile des Soeurs/Montreal
Quebec, CANADA j0r1t0
Work: 514-769-0007
christopherhalder@videotron.ca
Technique: HIO Toggle Recoil

Dr. Isabelle Cazeaux
Centre Chiropratique Vitalité
1 Place du commerce bureau 230
Montreal
Quebec, CANADA H3E 1A2
Work: 514-769-0007
Fax: 514-769-3897
Technique: HIO Toggle Recoil and Atlas Orthogonality


If you contact them and begin care with one of them please let us know. I'd love to hear how things go.

Thank Dr Koontz. I will keep you updated.
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