MS & Iron in brain

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Postby Bethr » Thu Sep 23, 2010 12:06 pm

I don't limit iron in my diet, other than I don't eat the iron-fortified foods, such as breakfast cereals. I choose one with no added iron, and i might add that most DO have added iron. (Iron is not put into flour in NZ thank goodness, but I think I read that in the States by law it must be added in production).

I think most people know this disease if multi-faceted.
We are all genetically different, and have different influences, and different diets that will affect us in different ways. We can't be scared to talk about these different influences.

Studies have shown that if you carry an iron-loading gene statistically your MS will progress faster. It does not influence whether you will get the disease in the first place. Why is that? It's such an important question.

The only difference between someone with an iron-loading gene and someone that doesn't is that they tend to have more iron in the blood stream and in storage.

Great way to be in a famine, but in this modern world of excess?
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Postby Bethr » Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:05 pm

I just went back and re-read Zamboni's 2005 paper on Venous Leg Ulceration and the Iron-loading C282Y gene.
What he's saying (correct me if necessary) is, if you develop varicose veins and you have an iron-loading C282Y gene you are seven times more likely to experience ulceration (bleeding, which would then deposit hemosiderin? Local Iron overload in the legs). Maybe the same thing is happening in the brain?

The effect of too much iron, secondary hemochromatosis (environmental iron)?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16102632

Hemochromatosis C282Y gene mutation increases the risk of venous leg ulceration.
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Hi everyone

Postby Gordon » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:48 pm

Okay I need Help. I want to get my iron checked in my blood. What do I check for, what tests do I ask for ... etc
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Postby jimmylegs » Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:42 pm

please don't get your iron checked without zinc tests also.

serum zinc is just that. on average ms-ers are low and low zinc = iron dysregulation.

for iron testing, you can do ferritin and serum iron. also TIBC. from SI and TIBC you can calculate percent tranferrin saturation (SI/TIBC x 100).

HTH!
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Postby Bethr » Sat Sep 25, 2010 12:31 am

Gordon, you need a FULL iron panel done, that will include measurements for ferritin, serum iron, and most importantly "transferrin saturation %" (TSAT).
TSAT is now the most accepted result to show if you are loading iron.
It is not done routinely.
Probably a basic CBC too, to see how your hemoglobin is etc.
Zinc too I reckon, although I haven't had that one done.
Will be working on my Dr next visit in November. That's the way it is with a public system, hmmm.
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Postby jimmylegs » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:23 am

bethr, see trans sat % calc above. doesn't require a test of its own.
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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The Tipping Point

Postby Gordon » Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:32 am

Does it make sense that deposition of iron in the brain gradually builds for a number of reasons, primarily CCSVI, and then reaches a tipping point where MS starts to ocour and gradually onje begins to slide, some steeper than others. The steapness is dependent on the extent of CCSVI, and your diet as well as possibly something like metabolisim of iron ??
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Re: The Tipping Point

Postby Donnchadh » Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:15 am

Gordon wrote:Does it make sense that deposition of iron in the brain gradually builds for a number of reasons, primarily CCSVI, and then reaches a tipping point where MS starts to ocour and gradually onje begins to slide, some steeper than others. The steapness is dependent on the extent of CCSVI, and your diet as well as possibly something like metabolisim of iron ??


Good questions.....CCSVI is opening up totally new lines of investigation.
There's many potential areas for research.

If only 70 years weren't wasted searching on the auto-immune theory!

Donnchadh
Kitty says, "Take that, you stenosis!"

Got MS?.....Get Liberated!
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Postby jimmylegs » Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:24 am

by the way gordon, sorry if you know this already but make sure you get your results with numbers and units - don't let them tell you things are 'normal'. they may well be, but you need more detail than that to establish whether your levels are 'optimal'.
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Postby Bethr » Sat Sep 25, 2010 12:23 pm

jimmylegs wrote:bethr, see trans sat % calc above. doesn't require a test of its own.

Yeah I know, but the lab does the calc for me. Above I call it a
"result", not test.
Wouldn't like to see people working it out for themselves.
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Postby gainsbourg » Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:01 pm

People forget that MS is basically a disease of inflamed nerve tissue in the CNS. I don't believe that inflamed nerves can metabolise iron or oxygen correctly (for whatever reason - possibly the faulty metabolism is triggered by the presence of the herpes virus). There was a study in Egypt a couple of years ago that first drew attention to this faulty iron metabolism. It was discussed in this forum a couple of years ago (as was iron and chelation) - I'll look it up later if anyone is interested.

The end result is a surplus of free iron, which gets deposited in the white matter of the CNS - specifically in the region of the inflamed nerve tissue. You can see the dark patches in the new, more powerful MRI scans of anyone with MS.

I wouldn't be in the least surprised if eventually they find out that having high iron intake can prevent the body from re-absorbing the excess iron in the brain, but saying that iron causes MS is, for me, unlikely.

It's like saying CCSVI causes MS, when most likely venous problems are a symptom of MS, not the cause. A symptom that in my opinion will turn out to be caused by something like the brain struggling to deal with the extra blood brought in to provide nutrients for compromised nerves - but that's a different discussion.


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HI Donnchadh

Postby leooreo » Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:22 pm

PEOPLE SHARE ALL KINDS OF HELPFUL TIPS TO HELP EACH OTHER - WE ARE NOT GOING GO SUE YOU IF WHATEVER YOU ARE DOING MIGHT HELP US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OR NOT HELP US.

SHARE - IT WILL COME BACK TO YOU IN A BIG WAY.!!!!!!!!
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Postby jimmylegs » Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:03 pm

@ bethr, i would be surprised if the trans sat % calc would be beyond joe average TIMS reader, but i could be wrong!
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Postby jimmylegs » Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:05 pm

@ gainsbourg: have you seen any posts on iron dysreg and zinc deficiency? i find them interesting :)
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Postby Bethr » Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:32 pm

jimmylegs wrote:@ bethr, i would be surprised if the trans sat % calc would be beyond joe average TIMS reader, but i could be wrong!


We went through it all in the "phlebotomy anyone" thread.
It comes up on my test results as a matter of course anyway, when you get a full iron panel.
Cheers........
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