Is "Liberation" the correct name ?

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Is "Liberation" the correct name ?

Postby welshman » Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:36 am

The link below is to a West Coast paper and the author questions the usefulness of calling the CCSVI treatment "the Liberation Therapy". The article does go onto talk about the pharma profits from the disease, but I know that topic has been more than fully discussed here :roll:

http://www.theprovince.com/opinion/prof ... story.html

I know Dr Z gave his treatment this name, don't know if it lost something in the translation, but maybe a different title for the treatment might not have gotten under all the Neuro's skins. Just though I'd pass the article on to the "TiMS" family and see what others might think.

Any possible suggestions for a new name ? Maybe just Venous Angioplasty - V.A. for short.
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Re: Is "Liberation" the correct name ?

Postby fogdweller » Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:50 am

welshman wrote:I know Dr Z gave his treatment this name, don't know if it lost something in the translation, but maybe a different title for the treatment might not have gotten under all the Neuro's skins. .

Any possible suggestions for a new name ? Maybe just Venous Angioplasty - V.A. for short.


Good Point!!any of us in business who have named a product, or those in marketing, know the critical importance of a name, and the liberation procedure sounds Italian flambouyant and over-promising, especially when dealing with a skeptical scientific community that has seen charlatens at work.

How about cerebral venous enhancement, or CVE. Remenber that sometimes stents will be used, so plain VA may not be enough. VS (stenting) and VA could then be types of CVE.
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Postby sbr487 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:59 am

i prefer placebo-ration
A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it
- Max Planck
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Re: Is "Liberation" the correct name ?

Postby 1eye » Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:27 am

welshman wrote:...:roll:

http://www.theprovince.com/opinion/prof ... story.html

I know Dr Z gave his treatment this name, don't know if it lost something in the translation, but maybe a different title for the treatment might not have gotten under all the Neuro's skins....


I believe Dr. Zamboni does not take credit.

Is "Liberation" the correct name ?

Yes. Next question.

Really, what are w talking about here? Is the word, or the concept, Liberation so offensive, in this free world of ours?

Or are some people offended that liberation of the blood could affect 'MS'?

"Keep on rockin' in the free world..." -Neil Young
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Postby David1949 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 4:44 pm

Dr. Zamboni can call it whatever he likes. If the neuros don't like it they can go fall off a cliff. Anyway I think they are more concerned about it's affect on their income, than it's name.
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Liberation

Postby Rosegirl » Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:42 pm

I don't know who came up with the term, but it sure sounds accurate to me!

Being free to leave my house without worrying if my destination is accessible is liberating!

Being able to go to the homes of friends and family would be liberating.

Being able to plan ahead and know that I'll be well enough to attend a function would be liberating.

Not having to depend on someone else to carry the laundry up and down the stairs, or bring in groceries, or just be out in the rain without worrying that my scooter batteries will die will be beyond liberating.

Etc., etc., etc.
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Postby Briggie » Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:28 pm

I've never been crazy about the term "Liberation" from the beginning, because it just sounded cheesy to me. But as I told a friend today, if I was the dr who came up with it, I could name it whatever I wanted. LOL

But the idea that neurologists would be more behind it if it were called something dft doesn't seem likely to me. My neurologist dismissed the idea of CCSVI out of hand. He didn't even know what the treatment was called.

I do think, though, that it gives scoffers something easy to pick on. Imagine the scoffers at their conferences, in their sarcastic voices, talking about "the so-called LIBERATION treatment."

However, I also think that it's too late for the name to change! :wink:
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Liberation from MS ????

Postby MarkW » Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:38 am

I dislike the term liberation because it makes people think they are getting liberated from MS. I have been de-stenosed but I still have MS. A new name would help marketing the treatment to vascular doctors who are key to progress on our treatment.

MarkW
Mark Walker - Oxfordshire, England. Registered Pharmacist (UK). 11 years of study around MS.
Mark's CCSVI Report 7-Mar-11:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/8359854/MS-experts-in-Britain-have-to-open-their-minds.html
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Postby cah » Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:54 am

I think the name is very inappropriate, esp. because it sounds all but scientific.

To be honest, if I'd hear the phrase "liberation treatment" without any further info I'd guess it's something homeopathic (like "homeopathic drainage") or even esoteric.

There's no need for a new name, I think. Calling it just "(vein) angioplasty" is the best way to show that it's a quite common procedure, isn't it?
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Postby David1949 » Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:37 pm

Would "Zamboniation treatment" be better? I guess the good doctor would have the right to call it that if he wanted to. Then we'd all be saying; "I've been Zamboniated".

Hmmm I think I like Liberation better.
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Postby Interrupted » Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:47 pm

I've never liked the 'Liberation Procedure' label at all. It sounds a bit quacky and makes it very easy for medics to laugh at. Yes I do sadly believe a name can help increase scorn i'm afraid. I'd personally prefer it to have an anatomical/medical name if it must have one, the same as most medical procedures.

Thus surely since the problem is Cerebro-Spinal Venous Insufficiency...

...the best term for a medical procedure to improve it would be Cerebro-Spinal Venous Angioplasty? :roll:

-------

Edit: Sorry, Cerebro-Spinal Venoplasty (if that's the correct terminology)
Last edited by Interrupted on Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby fogdweller » Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:07 pm

Interrupted wrote:I've never liked the 'Liberation Procedure' label at all. It sounds a bit quacky and makes it very easy for medics to laugh at. Yes I do sadly believe a name can help increase scorn i'm afraid. I'd personally prefer it to have an anatomical/medical name if it must have one, the same as most medical procedures.

Thus surely since the problem is Cerebro-Spinal Venous Insufficiency...

...the best term for a medical procedure to improve it would be Cerebro-Spinal Venous Angioplasty? :roll:


CCSVA...Petty good. I like it.
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Postby cheerleader » Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:12 pm

Dr. Zamboni has explained to me and others that he used the term liberation in reference to angioplasty's ability to liberate blood flow and correct venous stenosis. "Liberate blood flow" or "liberate nitric oxide" or "liberate O2" is a common phrase in medical research when discussing the separation and release of elements. It was never about a release from the disease of MS. With Dr. Zamboni, it's all about flow.

Dr. Dake suggests angioplasty or venoplasty to correct venous insufficiency. Sadly, the Liberation term has been used in the press and medical commentaries to denigrate a procedure that is already accepted for use in stenosed central veins.
cheer
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Postby 1eye » Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:54 pm

Well, if they can't denigrate, what fun is it? I think it is important to have fun at your job, whatever that may be. When I think of thankless jobs I think of bank robbery and suicide bombing. Why should these people not have any fun, seeing as it is, or may be, the last they'll ever have? And denigrating venoplasty procedures? Please, allow them this fun. It may help them to be a little more optimistic. :evil:
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New Terminology

Postby MarkW » Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:34 am

I support Prof Dake's term (with a slight amendment):

Venoplasty for Venous Insufficiency

This becomes VVI and short abreviations are the goal of consultants (usually at great cost to our clients). The VVI terminology describes what is being done to pwMS and is medically correct for both ballooning and stents.

Cheer is correct that the Liberation term has been used negatively in the press. We need to open minds as well as open veins so must lead on this. This chatroom should lead on terminology (so with a quick poll if others want to be democratic) we have a new term:

Venoplasty for Venous Insufficiency or VVI.

Can anyone better it ?
Kind regards,
MarkW
Mark Walker - Oxfordshire, England. Registered Pharmacist (UK). 11 years of study around MS.
Mark's CCSVI Report 7-Mar-11:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/8359854/MS-experts-in-Britain-have-to-open-their-minds.html
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